May trade for a new horse thoughts please?

[Hound]

It's not so much how long she spends with a trainer, she is who she is. It would be one thing to use a trainer for further training of a good minded horse (although I wouldn't recommend anything other than a horse that is the right horse NOW), but by all accounts she is a problem horse. A herd bound or barn sour horse is a dangerous animal. Obviously there are varying degrees of sourness, from headtossing or laziness/reluctance to leave to full on whirling around, bolting or rearing. If the seller thought it bad enough to mention in detail, price accordingly and split the horses up it is a big deal. Until you have the same level of skill as the trainer you won't get the same response from the horse, and you may find she needs frequent refreshers. I wouldn't give her a second thought, really.

 

[Hound]

Quote:
@ hound That is what I am looking for and all I want.

The training is not available there as far as I know. I have a trainer and was just saying if I don't have to pay for the horse that would be at least one month of training and I can have more training done. I guess you saying it won't help a horse that old. She said it had not been ridden and worked with much in the last year. So I thought maybe a refresher would help.

I am confused however on the differences in the legs of the horse. How can I tell if it is a large boned/legged horse able to handle weight. I never see two horses side by side that I can tell a difference visually one with small boned legs and one with large boned legs.

I will keep looking I am in no hurry really I hope to find something by spring. I was thinking with todays horse market and the economy that I could find an inexpensive horse that I can use....so why pay a ton of money for something they should not be charging that much for supply and demand. I hear of good deals all the time and think I can give a horse a home, friend for my horse, and a horse I can ride.

The odd bargain does sometimes appear, but I wouldn't count on it. Generally bargains to be had when it comes to cheap horses involve horses that haven't had much training or have easily fixable problems that are purchased by someone with the experience and time to put into it. As soon as you get into trainers etc you have someone else's overheads and profit margin to consider. $1500-2000 is by no means a ton of money when it comes to buying a horse. One way of looking at it is what would you rather pay for, a horse or medical bills?

I'm with one of the previous posters, if a horse is cheap because of something that is easy to fix, why hasn't the seller taken care of it? It's a buyer's market at the moment, don't buy someone else's problem.

 

[welsummerchicks]

I don't feel the same as Hound, I'v always been happy with every horse I bought. But that's because there were no surprises. I knew just what they were. Vet check, xrays, and being around the horse a little so I know what it's like. Solves a lot of problems.

A lot of that is picking appropriately. The steady eddie type, I got at the time I needed a horse like that. The hot little ferrari, I got a little later, LOL. A LOT later. And most people will never be suited to a horse like that.

If you ask any trainer, in any discipline from reining to dressage to showjumping to rodeo, the biggest and most frequent mistake people make is getting more horse than they can handle. Too green, too young, too spirited. Any trainer, no matter what kind of riding will tell you that people often think they can handle a green horse, a horse out of work that needs to be brought back, a horse with a problem.

ESPECIALLY green. People always seem to think it's SO easy to train a baby. If it was, why would all those professionals be getting paid to do it?

And then, of course, they don't want or can't afford lessons or a trainer. And training a horse is nowhere near as easy as it looks.

I'd say that getting a horse that's too much is just about as common as getting stuck with a lame/unhealthy horse. But I'd also say, the two are just about neck and neck, and both are very common.

Most problems aren't as easy to fix as it might seem. A seller saying a problem is easy to fix - don't count on it. Much of what horses do 'wrong', they do because of how they are built, or how their brain works, you don't change that - ever. And habits - habits are the easiest acquired and the hardest lost, in a horse. With a horse, the word 'Habit' should be proceeded by the words, 'Cast in cement'. Something a horse has 'acquired' can be the toughest thing to eradicate.

I've seen sellers pull a lot of tricks. Don't EVER take to heart, ANYTHING the seller says about the horse's history or how much he WUVS him or anything like that. Stick to facts, figure out what the horse is right now, and forget the 'sales shpiel'.

Probably the sneakiest one I ever saw, was the seller who told the buyer she couldn't handle the horse, but the BUYER, the buyer and the horse were meant for each other, thank HEAVEN they found each other. When the buyer trotted the horse over a pole on the ground, the seller burst into tears and sobbed, 'I could NEVER get him to do that!! You and he were MEANT to be together!!!'

The buyer was so flattered at the complements to her skill that she bought it hook, line and sinker - AND bought the horse, and spent the next years struggling with a spoiled, ornery young horse that she could not handle any better than the seller.

The goofiest thing anyone ever did to ME was let my two dogs out of my car and tell them to run at me on a green, just broke youngster. When asked why, the dealer said, to 'show you how well behaved the horse is'. When the one dog(six months old and 75 lbs) had its hind leg in my left stirrup and was licking my face, was about when things got interesting.

 

[michickenwrangler]

Training a young horse also takes TIME. Even me, someone who has trained young horses for over 10 years and currently rides a "hot little Ferarri" (more like a Jeep, I guess--a suped up Jeep) and has worked with problem horses would not buy a green horse without sending it to MY trainer and having my trainer evaluate it. Even though I am capable, I no longer have the time I did. When I trained horses, I worked at a pizzeria and then later a boarding stable, ranch and a McDonald's. My free time was my free time. Even through college, I still found time. Now, I have a daughter and I'm a teacher. My free time is no longer mine since I have a daughter who needs to be raised and papers that need correcting and lessons planned and PD to attend after school. Though I would consider buying a sane green horse for my own use since I CAN handle it, I would still take it to a reputable trainer since I no longer have the time to do it.

Food for thought.

Always take at least one other person to go with you. They will notice things you won't and ask questions you wouldn't think to ask.

 

[~*Sweet Cheeks*~]

http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/grd/2057728835.html

Max is a 19 year old 15 hand registered AQHA gelding great for anyone including kids and inexperienced riders. He loads and hauls great stands to be trimmed, bathed, blanketed and saddled. He is a great trail and pleasure horse but does require shoes on the fronts. Isn't spooky or flighty we flushed a bear out of the brush and he didn't even bat an eye. Just had new shoes put on 10-29 and is up to date on shots, wormers and had his teeth floated on 2-18-10. Really nice horse!

 

[~*Sweet Cheeks*~]

http://seattle.craigslist.org/oly/grd/2057580616.html

Trophy is an awesome gaited Morgan gelding. He is 15 yrs old and 15 hh. He is smooth as can be to ride with a wonderful gait. He neck reins, moves off leg pressure and is very responsive. He is not spooky and will go wherever you point him. Would make a great endurance horse. Great for a confident beginner on up. Just a great horse. He is an easy keeper with great tough feet that never need shoes. He is sorrel in the winter and a georgous liver sorrel in the summer with a thick wavy chestnut mane and tail. $500 obo.

 

[welsummerchicks]

"I am confused however on the differences in the legs of the horse. How can I tell if it is a large boned/legged horse able to handle weight. I never see two horses side by side that I can tell a difference visually one with small boned legs and one with large boned legs."

"Bone" may not much matter for a horse used lightly and occasionally. It really becomes important when one wants a 'using horse' and wants to be 'using' it for a long time.

"Bone" is measured on the cannon(what some people call the 'shin', the bone between the ankle and knee, on the front leg), and for most full size horses, is somewhere around eight inches. The measuring tape is wrapped round the cannon, so it's 'circumference'. But that measurement doesn't really tell much.

Why isn't the measurement the end of it? First of all, if the cannon gets more and more narrow as your eye travels up toward the knee, he's 'cut in' or 'tied in below the knee'. That cannon is only as strong as its narrowest point. Measuring it at a wider point, makes the measurement pretty useless.

Still, it's more about learning to have an 'eye' for it. A horse's legs, feet and knees, need to be in proportion to the mass of its body. When I look at a horse, I look first for general proportions, rather than details. I can usually 'disqualify' a horse based on those more general proportions - 1.) the legs and feet are in keeping with the mass of the body 2.) The front and back of the horse have similar mass and bulk 3.) The 'threes rule'. The neck length, back length, leg length, these three, match up well with each other.

If it has a very heavy, thick body, a heavy neck and head, it's doubtful ANY amount of bone can really support that, plus there's a 'point of no return' where more mass in the legs doesn't help support the body.

If a horse has a light, narrow body and good sturdy legs, big clean joints, correct big feet, he's ahead of the game. I've got one horse like that that has hocks you couldn't cover one side of with both hands - he had the most beautiful clean xrays the vet had ever seen even after a dozen years of 'usin'' every day and usin' hard.

A horse might LOOK good legged in proportion to his body, because he's too thin, or he might really be built light in the body and strong in the leg.

Too, a so called 'well topped' horse (one with too much body mass for little fine legs), might look that way because he's overweight, but he might also just BE too big up top for his legs.

I don't critique sale photos unless the seller agrees to it, but can go over photos with the owner's permission.

 

[Hound]

Quote:
I said i've never been pleasantly surprised by a horse i've LOOKED AT not BOUGHT.

Usually it involves actually showing up at the premises to 'know what they are'.

I have to say I have NEVER been pleasantly surprised by a horse i've gone to look at. Usually they're significantly worse than advertised, every once in a while the description is accurate, but i've never seen one better than the advert suggested.​

 

[welsummerchicks]

I did see what you wrote...But...I just automatically think of 'going and looking at a horse' and 'buying a horse' as the same thing. They're not, I apologize, but let me explain.

Generally, if I'm buying a 'family type horse', a 'pleasure riding horse', I would go to look at one horse, and I'd buy that horse. I'd make sure it was what I wanted before I made the trip.

We bought a 'family horse' a couple years ago. We only physically went to look at one horse, and we bought that horse. I just don't DO all these going to look at so many horses. It's time consuming and expensive.

 

[Hound]

It is very expensive and aggravating, but sadly horses frequently are misrepresented. I guess what I was trying to say to the OP was if it doesn't sound good in the advertisement more than likely it will be worse in person. There's a lot more exaggeration than there is underselling. I've had incidents when I really have wondered whether the horse i'm being shown is the one I have talked to them about, and i'm not alone. You can quiz a person upside down about it, but the 'little quirks' aren't alluded to until you're there and see them for yourself and ask about them, or the seller spontaneously mentions it when they didn't think it was relevant before. The dog gentle horse becomes dog gentle except for days with a 'T'. He's great except for... What they meant to say was he WILL make a dog gentle horse... once someone has ridden the buck out of him. It is totally aggravating because it is just a waste of time.