no animal by- product feed- help please!

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

Quote:
Actually, the commercial feeds are nothing but a byproduct of our own cheap, broken food system. It is nothing but garbage and filth designed to be poured down a bird's gullet for a couple years, until she's made into soup and replaced by the next Spring Chicken.

I never realized I was part of such an evil system.

Feeding 'junk' to livestock is counterintuitve, the feeds produced for livestock are desinged to be wholesome, nutritious, and exceed the nutritional needs of the animals.

Jim

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
Ahhh.. Indeed! One does not know... Spectacular point.... Honest human error can occur or simple human greed and deception can occur. There are a myrid of things that can bring in question. This is the very reason why I choose organic. "Woops someone let the animals come within ground contact of treated lumber, or used round up once in desperation and lied about it.. " So some one got a little dose of non organic, verses a hefty dose found in non organic goods.

Same goes for USDA inspectors and packing plants.. The e Coli outbreaks get bigger and bigger as the food manufactures and delivery systems get bigger and bigger. Hence bigger and bigger mistakes. Also it is my opinion the larger an entity is the less accountable it is.. heck look at our government...

True you say

Unless you have followed it back to the source you can't be 100% sure

I agree soo soo much with that statement. Hence the reason I support the concept of local small to mid size farms... You have a better chance of seeing the and understanding the source. If you market and sell your product directly to the consumer you are accountable, the customer gets to see and understand the reality of your practices... You make more money without the middle man, the customer gets a quality fresher product.

All it takes is removal of government subsides and $10 a gallon diesel and we are in business...

ON​

 

[Organics North]

Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay :

I never realized I was part of such an evil system.

Jim

I know it is hard truth to realize... Don't feel bad you are not alone. The marketing and propaganda machines and lobbyists of the folks like Monsanto and ADM corporation have confused many folks including government officials..

How else do you think they gained such a monopoly on our food supply.. Never in the history of man has any one or any company had such control.

Heck we are just rabbits in the wheel chasing the carrot they stick in front of us..

Quit sticking up for a system that only "feeds" enough "scraps" to keep us in business. Are you really happy with your business and profit margins? Do you really feel like you have control of your business?

Here are my suggestions to help to make the change:
Think outside of the box.. Make and offer products more and more people are demanding instead of fighting it.

I for one want to look at an ingredients list and see food items I recognize.. Not a bunch of chemical compounds. Many people who choose to keep back yard chickens, because they do not want meat or eggs that taste like commercial eggs. (Bland and pale)

Feeding commercial feed to back yard chickens makes them taste like commercial eggs!!!!!!!!

Back yard chicken owners need to be enlightened to the fact that they can have an egg that tastes like an old fashioned egg they remember from their childhood at grandma's house.....Give them the ability to create that egg! Give them choices! Make a unique feed!
Be a leader, think outside the box...Develop some designer feeds at a decent price. Quit chasing the carrot..

I will let you know what my consulting fee is once you make your first record profit...

Respectfully,

ON​

 

[Katy]

Quote:
Ahhh.. Indeed! One does not know... Spectacular point.... Honest human error can occur or simple human greed and deception can occur. There are a myrid of things that can bring in question. This is the very reason why I choose organic. "Woops someone let the animals come within ground contact of treated lumber, or used round up once in desperation and lied about it.. " So some one got a little dose of non organic, verses a hefty dose found in non organic goods.

Same goes for USDA inspectors and packing plants.. The e Coli outbreaks get bigger and bigger as the food manufactures and delivery systems get bigger and bigger. Hence bigger and bigger mistakes. Also it is my opinion the larger an entity is the less accountable it is.. heck look at our government...

True you say

Unless you have followed it back to the source you can't be 100% sure

I agree soo soo much with that statement. Hence the reason I support the concept of local small to mid size farms... You have a better chance of seeing the and understanding the source. If you market and sell your product directly to the consumer you are accountable, the customer gets to see and understand the reality of your practices... You make more money without the middle man, the customer gets a quality fresher product.

All it takes is removal of government subsides and $10 a gallon diesel and we are in business...

ON​

I don't know why everyone seems to think we get a lot of farm subsidies....we don't. And when we used to get a fair amount that was often the only money we had to buy groceries because any money from the crops went to pay farm bills.....and taxes on the subsidies we recieved. We also don't have $10 diesel.

I've quoted these figures before of where the farm program dollars go. This is from like a year ago, but nothing really has changed:

19% : farm and commodity programs
2% : international
11%: Conservation & forestry
3%: Rural development
6%: Research, Inspection & administration
59%: Food assistance=food stamps

As you can see from that most of the farm program dollars that everyone seems to think is making all us farmers rich (NOT) actually goes to many other things.

 

[Organics North]

Katy,
I know we don't have $10 a gallon diesel yet.. But it may be coming. We have been though this before.. The subsidy comment was not directed at you. It sounds like you raise diversified crops. You do not mono crop 1000 plus acres of corn.. My main gripe is with the corn subsides. Heck I get subsides too in the form of tax relief on our managed forest land..

ON

(Wow I got to get to work know..)

 

[Harmony]

Minnesotachicken wrote:

I want to switch to organic feed or feed w/o animal by products. It seems noone around here carries it. Where does everyone get theirs? Do I need to mix my own?

There's a good BYC page created by GardeNerd that might help your search for organic feed: https://www.backyardchickens.com/web/viewblog.php?id=20741-organic-chicken-feeds​

 

[le neige homme]

Quote:
ah-ha! Therein lies the thing that makes me go "hmmm".

Let's keep chickens so we can get away from the industrial food system and have "farm fresh" eggs in our backyards...but let's feed them the flotsam and jetsam of that very system?

It just doesn't make sense to me. That type of feed is the reason industrial eggs are bad for you. Chickens fed like real chickens produce healthy eggs. They are also happier, healthier and easier to take care of.

So just what do you feed your flock? Totally organic grains?

Not totally organic. Feeding 100% organic is a goal of mine for the near future (Spring 2011), but as of right now, these chickens have only just started to pay their own way (their eggs sell out every week @ $5/doz.). I (they) also need to invest a lot in the chicken infrastructure here before I can go totally organic. I'm about to get into meat birds this Fall and these girls need to pay for it. It's the least they can do for me. The crops on the farm are certified organic, but that has no impact whatsoever on the management of the livestock, landscape, etc. Not that we do, but we could technically use Round-Up and all of that stuff. But the worst we do is occasionally feed some non-organic grains to the chickens.

Here are some of the ingredients used in their feed, but it's up to each person to formulate his/her own recipe with the desired amount of protein. My protein level is at 19%+
I believe this is slightly over $4 per day, roughly 10-15 bucks per month more than the cheap feed.

hard red wheat
black oil sunflower seeds
barley
oats
kelp meal
fish meal*
nutritional yeast
flax seed
**************
flax seed
walnut pieces
peanuts
almond pieces
Volkman "Super Finch"
chopped, frozen veggies and greens
**************
pasture grass
comfrey
other farm veggies

Okay, I've broken it down into three categories. The first is their actual feed, the stuff that goes into their bowls. I mix this every day for them. I've put an asterisk on fish meal because I expect that somebody will take issue with the use of fish meal and cry about it. Not necessarily because he/she truly has an issue with it, but simply because this is the internet and that's how things go. Fish meal is something I hope to find my own sustainable replacement for in the near future. I'm seriously pondering a guppy breeding system and/or some type of freshwater shrimp. I guess fish meal could be classified as an animal "byproduct" (?), whereas fish and shrimp themselves, raised for that purpose, would simply be an animal "product".

The next group of ingredients is what I use to make seed cakes. Just a little something extra to keep them entertained and happy.

Lastly, they are on pasture and moved to fresh grass regularly. We have a comfrey garden planted specifically for them and I harvest every morning. As far as "other veggies" go, well, those are just icing on the cake and nothing to be taken seriously. I think people have a tendency to over-hype the amount and significance of veggies they feed their chickens, particularly in a backyard flock.

If anybody is interested, here's a website which shows you how to calculate the protein content of a custom recipe:

http://www.lionsgrip.com/protein.html

and "Pastured Poultry Nutrition" is a brochure only recently available online at: http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/PDF/chnutritionhpinew.pdf
previously, you had to call and order this one, so yay!

Finally, for anybody interested in reading further, or for those who will inevitably think I'm a lunatic, check out Resolution's posts in this thread:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=339703
(as usual, just ignore all the other drivel in the thread)

I'm slim on time now, but perhaps another time I can post of my first-hand experience and observations in feeding this regimen vis-à-vis the old standard commercial feeds. It makes me just sick to think about it though, really. The stuff really will kill your chickens. Long term or short term, directly or indirectly, it will kill them. And I'm referring to pretty much all of it, from Purina on down.

Have an awesome day, everybody...regardless of what you feed your chicky-boos.

 

[Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay]

Quote:
I look forward to the explantion you have for your assertion that commercially produced feeds will kill our poultry.

 

[Organics North]

Quote:
Post #15 on page two, is what I believe the reference is too. (Very information rich...) Thank you!

le neige homme,
The fish meal from the ocean is an moral issue for me. I can find it certified organic (Without the usual preservatives) However, over harvest is indeed a concern. The fact that Organic Certification does not allow mammal protein, but does allow fish meal, will further stress this resource. I very much like your idea of raising feed fish. The ingredient would indeed be Animal Product NOT animal by product aka WASTE!! Which it would be safer and better to remove from the immediate food chain to be recycled as compost.

What are your non organic ingredients and how to you intend to rectify the situation?

For me the Black Oil Sunflower is my non organic ingredient. I can not find it at realistic prices. Eventually I will need to contract to have some one grow me a few tons. My other not certifiable ingredient is the mammal meat I use. (Wild Venison.) Very organic! but not...

Just spectacular le neige homme, thank you for taking the time and energy to share!!

ON

 

[Organics North]

Lazy J Farms Feed & Hay :

Quote:
I look forward to the explantion you have for your assertion that commercially produced feeds will kill our poultry.

Remember the OP was looking for an ORGANIC feed free of animal BY PRODUCTS!!

I just deleted a page long answer to your question.

Instead might I suggest you watch a few of the wonderful documentary films on the subject of what is wrong with the status quo of industrial commercial agriculture industry you so happily represent...

I am sure many of us here could provide you a list of documentary films that could help you find your own answer..

Yes indeed I for one feel the industry has pushed it to far. And indeed my opinion is many "commercial" feeds and much of the industrial foods will make us and our livestock unhealthy which can lead to untimely death...

WHY do you think there are ORGANIC products ?? Not to be condescending but Da.. A growing number of people feel that a significant portion of the commercial agriculture industry creates unhealthy products that will kill and that these products are created with quantity and profit margins in mind over quality and health..

ON​