OVER THE COUNTER MEDICATIONS (OTC) IMPACTED BY NEW FDA PRESCRIPTION REQUIREMENTS INITIATIVE

[Sonya9]

We have other options... It's pretty easy to find antibiotics, like FishMox for fish and compound our own. Let me know if you want to learn how.

-Kathy

But the fish antibiotics are water soluable so won't they require a script too?

On that note what in the heck with people with exotic fish do? It's not like they can easily transport fishy to the vets office.

 

[casportpony]

Quote: If they somehow make fish antibiotics rx only, that would be problematic, lol, but I bet you'll still be able to find them. We recently found a site that sells marbofloxacin and another one that sells injectable dexamethasone and injectable flunixin meglumine.

-Kathy

 

[Free Spirit]

This has been an interesting topic to read so far. Lots of individuals with well thought out opinions. Ah, the miracles of modern medicines and antibiotics that has helped so many. Yet the overuse of said antibiotics also causing equal harm. Not to mention which one to use for which illness(es) and were they diagnosed correctly to begin with before administering.

I live in the heart of commercial chicken and turkey houses. I have a chicken house not 200 feet from my front porch. Thank goodness that they stopped raising chickens in 2001 and now only use it for storing hay. But I was able to see first hand and on a daily bases how chickens where raised. The unnatural rate of growth from the steroids and antibiotics in their feed. One somehow made it out of the house and into my yard. The owner said I could keep it. It was only 2 days old and therefore had only 2 days of the medicated feed. I watched it grow way too fast (twice the size of my month old RIR in a matter of weeks) and then a few months later collapse and die from underdeveloped lungs. Its excessive growth rate and week legs caused suffocation. All from just two days of antibiotics and steroids. This is why I'm an advocate for organic methods.

I prefer the organic (antibiotic free) route. But would consider antibiotics in a true emergency when I know the animal could be saved. Otherwise, it would be best to cull if the chances were 50/50 and it wasn't a prized bird or main brooder. It's a tough choice no matter whether your pro or con on antibiotics.

Then like so many others I live in the country and have two vets that treat livestock and pets but not birds. They also won't give or prescribe any meds without seeing the animal and since they don't see birds... you get the point. So we are left to our own devices. Thank goodness we do have an internet with vast amounts of information. The trouble is one symptom can be any number of things so you have to narrow it down by treating with trial and error until something finally works. Not to mention that there is equal number of misinformation out there. Frustrating indeed.

But what did they do 100 years ago when there were no antibiotics? Sure there was penicillin, but did they give it to the livestock? My thoughts (theory) are that they may have treated with natural medicines and herbs. My goal, especially in light of this news, is to research as many foods and herbs that are safe for the birds to eat and what properties the herbs give (example: oregano as a natural anti-bacterial, flax seed as a natural anti-inflammatory, etc.) and make a list. Then treat the birds based on symptoms by trial and error. Yet, it's important to treat with one thing at a time so you can find out what works. That way when you see these symptoms again you can use the method that worked immediately with less trial and error. And yes, it may be more difficult than it sounds.

There are diseases out there that natural medicine will never help. It is at that point that the tough decisions will need to be made (antibiotics if available or cull).

As always I am open to the suggestions of others who may have experienced and successfully treated what issues are new to me. Thank goodness for forums like this one for those who do not have access to experienced vets and others who have raised birds for years/decades in their area.

You can only do the best you can. It's just a shame that there are so few resources (i.e. vet's) available when help is needed.

Just my two cents to the topic

 

[casportpony]

@Free Spirit , what antibiotic and steroid were they?

-Kathy

 

[Free Spirit]

@Free Spirit , what antibiotic and steroid were they?

-Kathy

I wish I knew for sure. The owner just said steroids and antibiotics for fast growth and less dead losses. She actually lives 1/2 mile away from the houses and hasn't been around since they stopped running chickens (2001). She still owns the houses but rents them out to a nearby cattle farmer for hay storage.

 

[Sonya9]

But I was able to see first hand and on a daily bases how chickens where raised. The unnatural rate of growth from the steroids and antibiotics in their feed. One somehow made it out of the house and into my yard.

Are you sure that bird was a layer and not a meat bird?

100 years ago sick birds/flocks weren't killed at the first hint of illness like they are today. If birds recovered they passed on their resistance and strong immune systems to future generations (just like the much hardier wild bird species do).

 

[casportpony]

But I was able to see first hand and on a daily bases how chickens where raised. The unnatural rate of growth from the steroids and antibiotics in their feed. One somehow made it out of the house and into my yard. 

Are you sure that bird was a layer and not a meat bird?

100 years ago sick birds/flocks weren't killed at the first hint of illness like they are today.  If birds recovered they passed on their resistance and strong immune systems to future generations (just like the much hardier wild bird species do).

Good question, because meat birds grow fast even without drugs and leg and heart problems are very common in them. Another thing, was a necropsy done on the bird? If not, there is no way to know what the cause of death was.

-Kathy

 

[Free Spirit]

Are you sure that bird was a layer and not a meat bird?

100 years ago sick birds/flocks weren't killed at the first hint of illness like they are today. If birds recovered they passed on their resistance and strong immune systems to future generations (just like the much hardier wild bird species do).

They were meat birds. It is also my understanding that things have also change a little in the past decade. To be fair, while steroids and antibiotics were in the feed (regardless of what is told to the public) back then - according the owner - there have been some changes. The houses had to make improvements (one example is they had to be longer to accommodate the same number of birds). This gives the birds more room and lessen the chances of illness. Lots of other modifications were also required. This is why the houses next to me went out of business (they had no more land to expand, nor the money for the improvements). Advancements in selective breeding for size may have been a factor in removing a need for steroids. But it's likely they still use some antibiotics as the houses cannot be kept completely clean and free of bacteria and diseases. They were always hot and humid in the summer which is the perfect environment for pathogens.

But don't count me as an authority. I'm certainly not. I'm just going on the information that was told to me from a lengthy visit with a actual chicken house owner.

Thank you for the info on the 100 years ago. Good to know.

 

[casportpony]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think steroid use in food animals has ever been legal.

-Kathy

 

[JanetMarie]

100 years ago sick birds/flocks weren't killed at the first hint of illness like they are today. If birds recovered they passed on their resistance and strong immune systems to future generations (just like the much hardier wild bird species do).

They also practiced natural vaccination, which is also practiced today for those who let broody moms raise chicks within the flock.