Pigeon Talk

[backyard pigeons]

Also, BP: the enlarged wattles are definitely a trait selectively bred (just like the enlarged skin around the eyes in some breeds) but I'm not sure what purpose it serves or if its just cosmetic. I've heard that in some popular strains of Racing Homer the ones with the bigger wattles do better but I think its coincidence over correlation. At any rate, your ferals probably wont grow a bigger wattle because the size seems more or less determined at birth. Are you planning on letting your ferals interbeed with your other birds? I wonder how the phenotype of the cross would be.

okay, good to know. lots of racers have big wattles, i figured it was just a "manlier" pigeon. haha. i currently dont have ferals. i did have two, but they were lost on a loft fly when my OB's routed, im guessing they just were not capable of flying home from that distance, or, they found where they used to live... i doubt the second though, as both were caught off of the ground when only 25-28 days old.

No, i would never consider interbreeding ferals with homers. it would have genetic benefits, but not flying or homing benefits, which is top on my list.

A interesting thing about ceres is, i have one male who last spring started to grow a large cere. he was one year old when it had a growth spurt. it ahs grown un-evenly, and one side is larger than the other side. its quite interesting. I'm curious if his offspring (i bred him, hes a good bird with good flying and homing capabilities, who is a black t check to boot).

You probably don't like Xoloitzcuintlis or American Hairless Terriers either then, I'm guessing. Or Sphinx cats?

Not a fan of the Powder Puff Chinese Crested I shared a picture of either?

I love them all

Can you speak in English? Oh...

I'm sure they are loving, but sure aren't pretty! I like a robust, strong, healthy dog, or any animal. not a pethitic inbred pooch, or cat, or pigeon (NOT saying NN's are, they look awesome, with some strong genitics!). there's a reason i raise the 'thorough breds of the sky', they are ROBUST, STRONG, and HEALTHY!

 

[Qwerty3159]

I understand your point, but if I may:

Feral means a domestic animal that has returned to a wild or semi wild state , so even feral animals born to feral parents are descended from some domestic ancestor. So any feral animal, be it a cat, dog, horse, or pigeon, can still be classified as a domestic animal. The feral term is used to differentiate between domestic animals being cared for and those living in the wild.

 

[backyard pigeons]

I understand your point, but if I may:

Feral means a domestic animal that has returned to a wild or semi wild state , so even feral animals born to feral parents are descended from some domestic ancestor. So any feral animal, be it a cat, dog, horse, or pigeon, can still be classified as a domestic animal. The feral term is used to differentiate between domestic animals being cared for and those living in the wild.

That makes a lot more sense!! Thanks qwerty!

 

[biophiliac]

So here’s a question for all of you with ferals in your flock, do your ferals look similar to your homers, or do they have that feral “look” I described earlier, like this guy:View attachment 2334818

It’s worth noting that this is quite close to the appearance of the truly wild rock pigeon. A similar example can be seen in parts of the world with large feral dog populations, where over many generations they revert back to a dingo-like appearance.
View attachment 2334820

My ferals have that look. Rounder head with a prominent forehead, dark orange eyes, sharp narrow beak, a bit smaller overall, ...

I understand your point, but if I may:

Feral means a domestic animal that has returned to a wild or semi wild state , so even feral animals born to feral parents are descended from some domestic ancestor. So any feral animal, be it a cat, dog, horse, or pigeon, can still be classified as a domestic animal. The feral term is used to differentiate between domestic animals being cared for and those living in the wild.

Well put!

 

[Pyxis]

I like a robust, strong, healthy dog, or any animal. not a pethitic inbred pooch, or cat, or pigeon (NOT saying NN's are, they look awesome, with some strong genitics!). there's a reason i raise the 'thorough breds of the sky', they are ROBUST, STRONG, and HEALTHY!

They're really not much more inbred than any other breed. It's just a gene that's been propagated because people liked it. Honestly, pugs and bulldogs and all the brachiocephalic breeds are way worse off than these guys. At least the hairless breeds can breathe, lol.

" The Xoloitzcuintli's 'primitive' temperament (very high intelligence, sensitivity, high energy, inquisitiveness, strong hunting, and social instincts) is apparent because the breed's temperament was not modified overall by selective breeding in their native history in Mexico. This has also ensured a sturdy physical nature and vigorous health generally innate in both coated and uncoated Xolos."

Now, Xolos and American Hairlesses aren't on this chart, but you can see that when they studied the DNA of many breeds, Chinese Cresteds were actually less inbred than a lot of breeds, like Rhodesian Ridgebacks, Cocker Spaniels, Shetland Sheepdogs, Irish Wolfhounds, Bloodhounds, Dobermans, Collies, etc etc.

They're still fairly high up the list of inbreeding, but dogs I'd bet you'd not consider 'inbred' are higher than them, like the ones I named above Heck, they're only one place higher than German Shepherds.

 

[backyard pigeons]

****I re-read the post i made last night. it was much more defensive and rude than i meant it to be. I was not trying to hurt any one. I have deleted it now, as it was not necessary for me to post. i am sorry if i offended anyone Ill try to keep my self from misbehaving from now on.

 

[Old_Strain_Lover]

I understand your point, but if I may:

Feral means a domestic animal that has returned to a wild or semi wild state , so even feral animals born to feral parents are descended from some domestic ancestor. So any feral animal, be it a cat, dog, horse, or pigeon, can still be classified as a domestic animal. The feral term is used to differentiate between domestic animals being cared for and those living in the wild.

There are actually quite a few definitions for feral, and it all depends how one chooses to interpret them. Personally I don't like the term feral when it comes to pigeons. I do use the word from time to time, simply because so many other people do and it just makes it easier for them to understand. I more so feel they are feral only when they escape from someones care and begin living out in the wild. Once they live in that state, any babies born from them out in the wild are wild. If you look at it from another view... an individual breed of pigeon may have taken hundreds of years to develop. However, once these birds escape/get lost they very quickly revert back to wild type (meaning appearance). Their behavior is not only living in the wild, but their appearance also changes in a matter of a few generations. Hundreds of years of breeders selective work is undone in the matter of a few years breeding out in the wild!! I typically will refer to them as commons (common pigeon).

 

[WVduckchick]

****I re-read the post i made last night. it was much more defensive and rude than i meant it to be. I was not trying to hurt any one. I have deleted it now, as it was not necessary for me to post. i am sorry if i offended anyone Ill try to keep my self from misbehaving from now on.

I didn’t take it that way, and I’m probably worse than most about reading with a cynical preset in my mind. But that’s not the case with this thread! We have such varying views and I always enjoy reading everyone’s opinions. And I always learn new things, and have even changed my views on some things by learning from others here.

 

[Old_Strain_Lover]

I'm sure they are loving, but sure aren't pretty! I like a robust, strong, healthy dog, or any animal. not a pethitic inbred pooch, or cat, or pigeon (NOT saying NN's are, they look awesome, with some strong genitics!). there's a reason i raise the 'thorough breds of the sky', they are ROBUST, STRONG, and HEALTHY!

I used to have a friend with a hairless chihuahua. I once went over to his house, and at the time didn't know he had gotten this dog yet. We are outside in his yard and his wife comes out of the house and running along side her is this strange dog! I loudly said, OMG your dog has mange!!! I had no idea that it was supposed to look like that!!! The thing was so ugly I honestly thought it had mange. Of course all dogs seem to love me, so it kept coming up to me (at least 6 other people were there at the time and it completely was ignoring them). It was so UGLY I couldn't bring myself to touch it so I kept pushing it away with my foot haha.

 

[Qwerty3159]

Hundreds of years of breeders selective work is undone in the matter of a few years breeding out in the wild!! I typically will refer to them as commons (common pigeon).

Yes I think all the vagueness around certain terms makes it even more confusing. Have you ever seen how quickly pigs will revert to the wild type when they escape captivity?