Show Off Your American Gamefowl and Chat Thread!!!

[roosterhavoc]

While most lines of gentle hackle birds are poorly bred and inbred or linebred incorrectly, the quality lines are extremely healthy and have great vigor and resilience bred into them by careful and wise breeding practices. My genetic hackle birds are large and healthy and are certainly not thin or weak. Some of them have a more sleek body type while others are very large and full bodied.

In order to set traits and maintain them for consistent reproduction over time line breeding is required. However when done correctly, which isn't easy to do without a lot of education and experience raising chickens, proper line breeding actually leads to a healthier flock than does continual outcrosses due to learning the genetics of the line - both positive and negative - and through proper and aggressive culling early on eliminating (or greatly minimizing) the negatives while pooling the positives in a strong and healthy line. Remember every outcross that is done brings in a whole new set of genes that you don't know and that can introduce negative health or other traits that you can't see when looking at a bird or even several birds from a line.

Also, and this is a point of distinction, what most people refer to as "fly tie" birds are mediocre quality genetic hackle birds that originate from the old Darby line in almost all cases. And no matter their origin they haven't been refined through breeding by any given individual over time but have simply been passed along in small quantities from time to time and have been used mostly for outcrsses to other breeds to introduce barring or some other trait. High quality genetic hackle birds are very different and that is why they are so rare and not easily acquired. Other than Tom Whiting of whiting hackle, there are only three people in the US of whom I'm aware who produce decent quality hackle in varying degrees of quality. My birds came from a line that has been expertly bred for over 15 years by an outstanding breeder who has achieved an incredible level of refinement in his birds. These birds produce neck and saddle hackle that meets all the critical criteria for fly tying feathers, and I tie flies with feathers from all the birds to test, rate, and then choose future breeders accordingly (along with many other criteria). These are as much different from the typical "Fly tie" as the fly tie birds are from a barred rock. I've had other genetic hackle birds, so I know the difference, and the difference is huge.

Because of the requirements to raise them properly most aren't interested, willing, or able to raise them, so I agree that in the long run it's cheaper and far, far easier to go buy your neck and saddle hackle commercially.

I understand all that. I've said in the past that it's not worth the time to me to breed them starting where I was. I wouldn't likely get to where Collins, Keough, Ewing, Metz and especially whiting are in my lifetime. Since you stated just how good your birds are. Can we see some pics of roosters, hens, dry flies tied with your feathers and some individual cape and saddle feathers?
How long have you been breeding these birds?

 

[SOHC-FTW]

Got the best results out of the 54g load 1/8in group at 75yds it is a hot day so not so good for barrels, going to step down to 53.75 and see if itll group any better on thursday. Really wish i had a tikka well i could but gotta get the na and nitrous tune done on the truck oh well then ruger will do for now.

 

[roosterhavoc]

Guess we ain't getting any pics

 

[roosterhavoc]

@sdm111 how did you find those old pics? I had a bunch of my birds.

 

[sdm111]

I went to my posts and went way back it took so much of my valuable time but I guess the owners don't give a s*it about our time.

 

[sdm111]

I apologize if my message came off as arrogant or bragging. That wasn't my intention at all, and I'm not like that. The reason I stated what I did is that I did a tremendous amount of research (and not just reading) on genetic hackle and the currently available fearhers as well as the lines being grown in the US today.

I won't address those names you mentioned individually, however I will say that other than whiting (and Metz to a lesser degree) most of those mentioned (and some not mentioned I was actually referencing in my previous post) produce primarily dry fly necks (capes). They sell or give away (with a cape purchase) their saddles, however they aren't near the quality of their necks. Again I won't mention a name specifically but one of those you mentioned doesn't even produce good necks. Charlie Collins produces beautiful necks, and from all I know is a well respected guy who takes good care of his customers, and I have nothing negative to say about any of the other individuals you mentored. But to include whiting and Metz in this discussion isn't really what I intended in my original message since they are industrial "machines" that operate on a completely diffeeent scale than the others you named. Both whiting and metz produce excellent product, and again I have nothing negative to say about either. I still tie flies with some feathers I purchased before starting to raise my own, and I may still in the future if there is something I want or need that I don't have or can't produce myself.

Here are just a few photos of some of my birds. What you will notice is the extreme cock feathering in the hens and the extreme multiple feathering in all the birds. The necks on these hens are nicer than necks on many regular roosters, and their saddle cushions are mounded up with feathers (see white hen below). While there are neck specific lines and saddle specified lines within these, most produce very nice necks and saddles. 14" is standard (some are longer, but that is standard) for saddles at harvest around a year old, but the number of saddles is a critical element as well. These are extremely feather rich and densely packed with feathers.

Grizzly cockerel at around 8 months old:

View attachment 1096926 View attachment 1096927
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Barred dun pullet at around 5 months:
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Barred ginger pullet around 8 months:
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White pullet around 10-11 months:
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As you can see these are hardly dainty or fragile birds. They are big, strong and healthy and are certainly not frail frames lacking muscle.

I hope this helps to show some of the things I mentioned. If you have further questions I'll gladly discuss them with you. Send me a PM. And again I sincerely apologize if my original message came across with an unintended tone of arrogance. That was not my desire or intent at all.

Or you didn't think someone here knew thier sh*t

 

[SOHC-FTW]

Start digging some trenches everyone.

 

[roosterhavoc]

These are all almost 5 yrs old or so.

And starting to molt

 

[SOHC-FTW]

Man mine are molting like crazy its that time though.

 

[Bross63]

Or you didn't think someone here knew thier sh*t

No, that wasn't the case at all. I tried to clarify myself and apologized for any unintended tone in my original message. There is a general misunderstanding about genetic hackle, and I've heard the term "fly tie" more often used to describe a bird with a barred (grizzly) pattern than I have to describe genetic hackle birds. I was simply trying to share some information, and if in doing so I offended you personally I sincerely regret doing so. Everyone who posts in here is not trying to be a jerk, but I guess one can read into any message what they want.