Silver laced Wyandotte Roo and Gold laced Wyandotte hen offspring?

[Pufna]

So how I understood reading some genetics? threads, SLW roo with a GLW hen will give SLW hens and GLW roos.
So if I pair my two GLW hens with SLW roo and get a GLW roo, can I then breed the new GLW roo with GLW hens and get both roos and hens GL?

 

[Lady of McCamley]

I'm not a Wyandotte breeder, but you have that reversed as silver is dominant over red (and gold is diluted red, or rather gold/red are close as I understand).

You will need a GLW rooster over a SLW hen to produce SLW cockerels and GLW pullets as the silver gene is on the hen's Z chromosome to dominate the Zred(gold dilute) of the roosters to produce silver ZZ males and ZredW(no color) girls.

Then Yes. Imho you should be able to breed that GLW rooster back to his GLW daughters and keep a GLW line. I've done a nice job of producing gold laced Barnevelders by line breeding daughters back to their beautiful daddy. I've got some lovely Barnies now.

I actually started with red based hens bred back to a lovely Gold Laced Barnevelder. F1 (first generation) gave me red based with incomplete lacing. Those daughters bred back to dad produced F2 (second generation) lovely golden laced barnies.

LofMc

 

[Poultrybonkers]

Thanks for replying.
So how I understood you, I can't get a gold laced roo with breeding a silver laced roo and gold laced hen?

No all will be silver split to gold

 

[NatJ]

I can't get a gold laced roo with breeding a silver laced roo and gold laced hen?

Correct. But with that pairing, the sons will be split silver/gold (so they look mostly silver, but carry the gene for gold.) Crossing one of those sons to a gold laced hen should produce some gold laced chicks (both genders) and also some silver laced chicks (both genders.) The silver ones might not look very good (not a clean white), but I think the golds will probably look fine.

 

[NatJ]

You can eventually get to gold with the Silver roo, but it will take some effort, and might not be as clean as you like.

It can be done in one less generation than you said, and is not as complicated.

Remember that statistically (like flipping a coin) it will look like this
F1 (1st Gen) Silver roo over Gold hen, silver split 100% both sexes

No, not right. Sons are split, but daughters are pure for silver.

Gold/Silver are on the Z sex chromosome.
A rooster has ZZ. He might be pure gold, he might be pure silver, or he might be split (gold and silver, but looks mostly silver.)
A hen has ZW. She is gold, or she is silver, but she is never split (because W does not have the gold or silver gene.)

A hen gets her Z chromosome from her father, and W from her mother. She gives her Z chromosome to her sons, and her W chromosome to her daughters.

F2 Silver roo over Silver split daughters, 50% silver 50% gold, both sexes...however you might set 12 eggs and 8 hatch, of those 8, 5 are males, 3 are females, of those, you might get lucky and get 1 or 2 golds, or they could all be golds, but not nice looking, or 1 or 2 nice looking.

No, because gold/silver are on the Z sex chromosome. What you describe is not quite right even for genes on other chromosomes (should show 75% dominant gene, 25% recessive gene), but it definitely does not work with genes on the sex chromosomes.

Just take a split gold/silver male from the first cross, and breed him to his mother.
The gold mother gives gold to her sons, and W (neither gold nor silver) to her daughters.
The split rooster gives gold to some sons and some daughters, and silver to other sons and other daughters.

So this second generation of breeding gives you gold sons, gold daughters, split sons who look silver, and silver daughters. All of those are pure for their respective gold or silver genes, except the half of sons who are split gold/silver. (Whether they are all a nice shade of silver or of gold is determined by a bunch of other genes, but I'm guessing the golds will be fairly good.)

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Yes. ^This.

You can eventually get to gold with the Silver roo, but it will take some effort, and might not be as clean as you like.

Remember that statistically (like flipping a coin) it will look like this
F1 (1st Gen) Silver roo over Gold hen, silver split 100% both sexes

F2 Silver roo over Silver split daughters, 50% silver 50% gold, both sexes...however you might set 12 eggs and 8 hatch, of those 8, 5 are males, 3 are females, of those, you might get lucky and get 1 or 2 golds, or they could all be golds, but not nice looking, or 1 or 2 nice looking.

Take the nice looking F2 gold roo and breed back to grandmother gold hen. At that point you should start seeing gold chicks as silver should have been bred out...but I've not tried this project so I'm not sure how clean the gold would look...like NatJ said, silver would probably not be pretty but the gold *should* work.

It will take effort, and my personal experience is F2 doesn't go quite as planned. You may have to retry F2 efforts a few times to finally get a nice looking gold rooster with good health and temperament (don't forget those things too).

Good luck,
LofMc

 

[Pufna]

@Lady of McCamley
It's all good, thank you to both of you. You gave your best to help me and it's interesting to read, even though I'm not good with all genetics terminology haha .
I understood what you meant, thanks again

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Ditto. SL roo will be dominant silver over all gold, unless he is split silver...a thought....but that would simply create 50/50 silver or gold both male and female.

If he is pure he should be double silver, so silver split offspring with silver dominant all chicks.

LofMc

 

[NatJ]

So you are saying that the gold laced hen is silver genetics? That doesn't make sense. Silver is dominant over gold, and yes it is on the Z chromosome.

I've worked with a lot of barring sex links, so I understand the barring on the Z chromosome and the pattern breakout. I've also done a lot of silver/red sex links. Again following the Z chromosome.

Not sure what you are trying to say. Are Wyandottes just different?

Just trying to learn
LofMc

No, Wyandottes are not different. It should work just like barring.

The gold laced hen does not have silver genetics.
But when the gold laced hen is bred to a silver laced rooster, all daughters are silver. They do not have any gold gene at all.

It is just like when you breed a barred hen to a not-barred rooster: the daughters have no barring at all.

 

[NatJ]

So parents S/S roo and gold hen s/- (yes, correct notation, forgive me for being sloppy).

Yes.

That (from the punnett I just ran) works out:
ZS Zs 50% silver split males (dad's ZS, either one, with mom's Zs)
ZS W- 50% silver split females too (wouldn't it?) Dad's ZS (either) with Mom's W

That's F1 correct?

I agree, except for one point: I would not call the females "split."

The males are "split" because they have both silver and gold (S/s). They can pass either gene on to their offspring.

The females only have one gene (S). They are not "split" for anything. They are as pure for silver as any female from a silver-only line. Sorry, I don't have a good simple word for that condition, but it's not "split."

I don't know if you're familar/comfortable with the official terms geneticists would use, but they do have a word for this:
Homozygous = S/S or s/s (matched pair of genes, "pure" for the trait)
Heterozygous = S/s (mis-matched pair of genes, "split" for the trait)
Hemizygous = S/- or s/- (only one gene available, no pair.)

So, I think we are saying the same thing? (Sorry driving me a little nuts).

It's driving me nuts, too
But I had to do other things for a while, and then I came back to re-read your posts, and I think we are saying almost the same thing--just differing on what to call the females, and maybe how they behave in the next generation.