So western pleasure sorta scares me.

[SpringChickens]

Truthfully, my number one observation of western pleasure horses is that they tend to be MISERABLE. They are cranky while they're being worked, and even MORE cranky when they're not! As a whole, they just don't seem to enjoy their lives (and who can blame them??

)

 

[Rusty Hills Farm]

a true canter has elevation and suspension. <--- Quarter Horses do not.

Ahhh....but the WP classes do NOT ask for a canter. None of the stock seat classes do. They ask for a LOPE. It is a very different gait. Nor do they they ask for a trot. They ask for a jog. Again, that is a whole different gait. I do NOT like to canter but I could sit a lope all day--it's like sitting in a old, comfortable rocking chair. (And I am assuming that you were still talking about WP when you made this comment.)

I do wish I was skillful enough with words to express the differences between the gaits to you. Unfortunately I am not. But I sure can feel the difference when I am in the saddle. Both the jog and the lope are meant to be ground-covering gaits that the horse can use comfortably for long stretches of time, as when you are working cattle or covering a lot of open space working fences and such. The western half of this country is a BIG place and that is where these gaits were developed and bred for--out where a few hundred thousand acres was a small place. I could certainly be wrong, but I have always had the impression that the trot and the canter were developed in cavalry/war horses centuries ago in Europe, so they do not have the same purposes at all. The high-stepping gaits helped the rider avoid getting a spear, lance, or sword run thru him.

Of course, I have never competed in WP (sorry but I've always considered that to be a woman's class, sexist as that sounds) and have always competed in working classes, esp. cutting and reining, where nobody's nose is dragging on the ground. Both classes feature a lot of collection and horses working off their hind quarters. Nonetheless, they are LOPING, not cantering, and JOGGING, not trotting, and there is a LOT of difference in how those gaits feel to horse and rider.

JMO, of course.


Rusty


edited to add:

Truthfully, my number one observation of western pleasure horses is that they tend to be MISERABLE. They are cranky while they're being worked, and even MORE cranky when they're not! As a whole, they just don't seem to enjoy their lives (and who can blame them??

This has been my observation as well. The sad part is that 30+ years ago this was NOT the case. As people have gotten more extreme, the horses have gotten more and more unhappy. Also another reason why I have never competed in WP.

To the OP: Why would you want to compete in WP instead of, say, reining? Reining takes some considerable skill both to learn and to execute, whereas WP is just endless circles.

Still all JMO, of course.

Rusty​

 

[babyblue]

pictures, not all great but just what I can find. but unless stated, all at a wp speed jog or lope, no looping reins, no head dragging none of the ridiculous extreme stuff.


My friend Sue and her horse Mitch- actually loping a circle in a western ridding class. note the head position balance and posture of this guy. great collection without being the 4 beat peanut roller.

me ridding or driving my horse Dan

picture perfect western pleasure jog

Dan at a working trot driving

one of the barn kids ridding my horse Dan- note this is actually a very tall 11yo beginner so forgive her ridding a good bit.

 

[welsummerchicks]

Western Riding class horses look very different to me from Western Pleasure - none of the pictures look to be from a western pleasure class.

Spring Chicken, I understand what you mean but saying so can make those who compete in WP well, a little defensive.

The only trouble is, I've seen the same thing. I'm not sure why it is, but it is definitely there. I don't think everyone's horses are like that.

I think that the reason for that is a combination of two things - one, the type of conformation that is sought after, which makes it hard for the horse to work, and two, that the animals are asked to go only in that one way, extremely slowly, with the head very low, continuously. Yes, even having the neck level...that's a very low head carriage.

It's also possible that some of the training methods are hard on horses. I read an article once, that said that 90% of WP exhibitors injected alcohol into the horse's tails, to keep them still. I would think that would cause soreness in the back.

I'm not sure how true the article was. I think that amateur exhibitors who show on their own, tend to avoid doing such things.

 

[babyblue]

both the horses in the pictures do both, actually both Dan and Mitch do western pleasure, western ridding, trail, hunter under saddle, jumping, driving and Dan works cattle and is also the kids lesson horse. so like I said a good wp horse lol.

the biggest thing I dislike was the specialization of the horse into only doing one or two class's very well. my actual hope for the crappy economy and fall in the horse market is the return of the all around QH/stock horse. if people can only afford one or two horses then if they want to compete in every class they will have to use what they've got.

alcohol in the tail will kill off nerves and such very quickly. I dont know of anyone who has done that or would even think to do that. but just like saddlebreds and arabs got their tails gingered and TW's got unmentionable things done to their feet I assume particularly with trainers on time/budget constraints that have to have things the way they want in little to no time it happens.

 

[onthespot]

I watched the video, and my eye kept going ot the sorrel ridden by the big guy in the red shirt. I thought, DANG that horse really stands out above the rest... and it won the class. That horse did not look miserable to me. It did not look like it had a lot of impulsion, or speed, or energy, but it looked like it was doing what it was bred and trained to do, willingly and comfortably. Can't say the same for several other hroses in the class....

 

[naturalfeddogs]

Quote:
Everything you just mentioned here, is why I got out of the pleasure showing. That combined with politics of not WHAT you know but WHO you know took all the fun out of it for me.

 

[patandchickens]

Thank you for the nice pics, babyblue, it is always pleasant to see horses going well

However the pics do not show top WP horses illustrating suspension in the trot or canter. In fact the only pic that looks actually WP-like at all (and I mean "what WP realistically is in the show ring these days", not "what the written rules seem to say") is the one of you on Dan at the jog, and that one very clearly shows that there is NO suspension in the gait, and the horse a bit on the forehand as you can see from the fact that the forefoot is further-grounded than the corresponding hindfoot rather than having them totally in unison. (Unless by "suspension" you mean something like "his back is kind of up", rather than what AFAIK is the conventional mean of "suspension in a gait" i.e. a moment during which no feet are on the ground. If that is so, I would agree that those horses are using their backs to some degree.)

The thing is, I question whether any of those pics, if they occurred in the WP showring, would get a second look from any judge, except in little local shows. (With the exception of the abovementioned one, which is very WP-appropriate at some levels but even so I dunno bout at the national level... speaking as someone who once boarded for a few yrs at a largely-WP barn that showed all up and down the east coast). The first picture is pleasant-looking but way not WP.

As far as 4-beat canters, if I had a nickle for everyone who is sure their horse is not 4-beating when they ride it, and then is shocked, *shocked!*, to see pics OF THAT RIDE where the horse is quite clearly 4-beating... Seriously. It is next to impossible to canter as slowly as they do in the showring (it can be done, but not by horses ridden that way and in that curled-up-with-a-tummyache-and-head-real-low frame) and NOT be 4-beating. Although obviously some horses do it more egregiously than others.

Pat

 

[babyblue]

well pat like I said, the pics weren't exactly the best either. also the horses pictured are also in my opinion what western pleasure should look like. Dan like you mentioned does not have the suspension of a warmblood, never going to happen lol. and you are right he is a little heavy on the forhand in that pic too. that is honestly do to his laziness, most defiantly not his training. Dans preferred speed is stop and eat now a days so he needs to be pushed up and into a level balanced frame.

what I strive for is balance, proper use of the back and rear end, smoothness and consistency. a relaxed horse that has those things and is structurally built like Dan is wont always be a fast paced horse. which years and years ago was the start of the whole wp speed preference. a smooth balanced relaxed horse that was a little slower got placed higher so others copied the speed hoping to win and ended up with the ridiclious gaits we have now. again there is not the suspension and movement of a warm blood, but quite honestly thats not what we (I) strive for. A wp horse should be simply a horse that is easy and a pleasure to ride without fighting, resistance or ending up with horse or rider sore at the end of the day.

you make mention of this style not winning at upper end qh shows, honestly most of my upper end qh showing is a few years behind me. now its only local or regional and a whole lot of 4h stuff with the kids in which Dan always does very very well.

 

[patandchickens]

Quote:
Oh, no argument that western pleasure SHOULD look different than it actually does these days in the ring

From what I have seen of the written rules it seems like it should be possible to present reasonably-functionally-going physically-happy horses that suit the rules. But of course that does not have much to do with what is actually rewarded in the ring.

what I strive for is balance, proper use of the back and rear end, smoothness and consistency. a relaxed horse that has those things and is structurally built like Dan is wont always be a fast paced horse<snip> there is not the suspension and movement of a warm blood, but quite honestly thats not what we (I) strive for. A wp horse should be simply a horse that is easy and a pleasure to ride without fighting, resistance or ending up with horse or rider sore at the end of the day.

1000% agree.

Has nothing to do with actual WP showing, though, at least not since like 1979ish

now its only local or regional and a whole lot of 4h stuff with the kids in which Dan always does very very well.

You know, I think it is soooo especially important to have non-dysfunctional horses going in a way that is consistant with their physical wellbeing AT THE 4H AND LOCAL level, because so many more people people do that kind of showing than, like, Congress. There are way too many people (at least in places I've lived) who are doing 4H/local showing by trying to force their horses into even-more-contorted-and-dysfunctional versions of what they think they're seeing the top national-level horses doing. And there is really very little reality check available at the 4H/local level, especially in some areas, so they can be rewarded for it and spread the problem further. So it is GREAT that you are having students RIDING CORRECTLY ON CORRECTLY-GOING HORSES at those levels, and winning at it, which influences others to try to do the same.

I am not holding my breath for 'real' Western Pleasure to ever change, though

Pat​