the 30s all over again

[AquaEyes]

Quote:

Yes, one thing that is frightening is when people take bad times as their opportunity to scapegoat the problem onto things or people that/who are against their own agendas but have nothing to do with the situation. "We're in this mess because of..." fill in the blank. Ask yourself "was this present during times of prosperity?" and if so, question why it would be any different during more difficult times. Correlation does not mean causation.

 

[teach1rusl]

My 100 yo grandpa would tell you that there'll never be another "Great Depression." There are simply too many handouts in place for people to drop to the level of depression families back then. Then, having nothing meant having nothing. There would be a lot more p*ssing and moaning (and possibly gnashing of teeth...lol), but today's citizens would STILL have more than their 30s predecessors (who p*ssed and moaned quite a bit less over much greater devastation).

 

[cpwhip]

If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in Delta Airlines one year ago you would have $49.00 today! If you purchased $1,000 of shares in AIG you would have $33.00 If you purchased $1,000 of shares in Lehman Brothers you would have $0.00 today. But, if you purchased $1,000 worth of beer, drank all the beer, turned in the aluminum cans for recycling, you would have $214.00.
Therefore the best current investment plan is to drink heavily & recycle. It is called the 401-Keg Plan..."

 

[chickened]

Quote:

 

[Ridgerunner]

It's complicated. Anyone that thinks there is a simple answer is, well, thinking too simply. And statistics can be made to say whatever you want them to say. I'll give an example. During the Eisenhower years, the top tax rate on the wealthy was 91% if my memory serves. I could be off some. 91%, not 35%. The middle class was growing. Good times were had by most people. Some people would say it was because of the higher top tax rate. I'd say that that top tax rate was not a huge restriction, but you'd have to look at the entire tax structure, not just the extremes, to draw any kind of logical conclusion. But, man, don't we love the extremes these days.

This simple look also ignores a whole lot of other things. For example, much of the rest of the developed world had just been bombed into oblivion. We had the war factories still undamaged that could be retooled to produce the goods and supply them to the rest of the developed world. We had the Marshall Plan (Foreign Aid?) which helped get Europe in shape to buy our goods. Of course our economy boomed and the middle class grew. We are in a different world today, and this is just one example of the differences.

The answers are complicated. The office of presidency is not equivalent to Hitler's Germany. The president, Democrat or Republican, cannot make a decree and send out the brown boots to enforce it. It takes cooperation among the people we elect to be leaders. And we won't let them cooperate. If someone cooperates to get to a workable solution, they are weak, they caved, they are ineffective. They are traitors to their cause. If somebody tries to explain the complications, we get bored listening to them. And a political opponent takes a 15 second sound bite out of context, puts a simplistic jingle with it, and destroys them politically. We the voters lap this up.

How can you reach a solution if you cannot even discuss the problem honestly? Take Foreign Aid. There is some humanitarian aid involved, but most of it is used to buy something. Whether that is something to help our military (which translates to national security), access to raw materials, political support, access to markets (which directly helps create and keep American jobs) or something else, we are usually buying something with Foreign Aid. I think a discussion involving are we getting our money's worth with this specific Foreign Aid is very legitimate and worthwhile, but when people misrepresent Foreign Aid as just giving money away and won't allow you to discuss the individual merits, how can you even have an honest discussion?

Anyway, off my soap box. Have a nice day.

 

[welsummerchicks]

http://money.cnn.com/news/storysupplement/economy/recession_depression/

numbers comparisons.

 

[Q9]

Quote:
yup

No, it isn't. However, a war would be a great way to distract the population from the depression at home.

(Recovery from the Great Depression began when WWII was over. The obscene command-and-control economy was eliminated and the US underwent an astounding economic recovery. Remember, the economy is not just employment numbers.)

 

[chickens are great 12]

hi and welocome to BYC!

 

[Q9]

Quote:

Yes, one thing that is frightening is when people take bad times as their opportunity to scapegoat the problem onto things or people that/who are against their own agendas but have nothing to do with the situation. "We're in this mess because of..." fill in the blank. Ask yourself "was this present during times of prosperity?" and if so, question why it would be any different during more difficult times. Correlation does not mean causation.

Allow me. We're in this mess because for the last 80 years we've been electing idiots, liars and incompetents to the office of the presidency without fail, and pretty dang consistently have been electing morons and political prostitutes to Congress. It's stupid to lay the blame on one president - who IS to blame, then? We, the People, of the United States of America are to blame. We have tolerated hypocrites to high offices and have sat back and allowed them to do whatever they will. Why? "It's the Democrats' fault!" some say. This is true. Others say, "It's the Republicans' fault!" This is also true. Why do we tolerate those who we elect who then do not do what they say they will? Because they're members of our preferred party.

We, the People, of the United States of America have failed, completely and totally. We are the idiots that we've been trying to locate and burn at the stake. We are destroying this country.

Of course the economy is not as bad as the Depression - YET. What happens in the highly probable event of hyperinflation? Or what if the U.S. government can no longer provide its handouts because it has no money? The U.S. can't pay off the debt; that much is obvious. Hyperinflation, bankruptcy, or rapidly deteriorating relations with China. What a choice.

The riots in England will be a freaking cakewalk in comparison.

 

[mandelyn]

The government has dug us into quite the hole. It's untelling what the consequences will be or how it will all pan out. Propaganda is just as available as it ever was, and more readily accessible. I'm not worried about us... I'm worried about other groups, how they'll act, and if they live near us.

Public discontent is a bad thing. How we all respond to it, and if it reaches us... that all remains to be seen. You may be unaffected by it, but what about your neighbor. You have your house, your job, you're secure. But what about the people around you who are not? Can that affect you? You can believe what you want, and so can they. How either of you respond to it can affect the other.

Kind of like driving a car. You know you'll get there safe. But will some moron run a redlight and t-bone you? Will a group of your neighbors believe some garbage they heard and act out in mob mentality? Will the news cause some sort of irrational panic that spreads? Will the government actually screw things up so badly that the paranoid people were actually right for a change?

What if?

My plan is to just go with it and do the best we can, whatever may come. Going about normal life and not getting worked up over anything. But keeping an eye out for those that do, I don't want to get t-boned by some moron acting irrationally. Discontent, depression, paranoia, mob mentality... people can do very strange things when the mood strikes... stuff you never thought they were capable of. Technology and modern society doesn't make us any different than the humans of 100, 200, whatever years ago. Evolution is slow, education (or belief in what you hear) is much faster. But we're still people... prone to emotional changes, irrational behavior... all of it. How will we all respond to whatever changes happen... that's what I think about.

The more things that unravel, the more inclined people will be to act out in one way or another. Some people just can't tolerate change very well, especially if it involves taking something away from them.

Right now we're fine for the most part. Either things will improve or they won't. But everything has a tipping point, in one direction or another. Maybe we'll just teeter on the brink of self destruction for awhile before things turn around. Or we'll crash and burn and then recover from that after a time. How ever it goes, whatever happens happens, most of it is out of our control anyways. We can control how we respond to it though.

We have grown soft, no doubt about that. What happens when the softies snap?

cpwhip... Hilarious!

"If you had purchased $1,000 of shares in Delta Airlines one year ago you would have $49.00 today! If you purchased $1,000 of shares in AIG you would have $33.00 If you purchased $1,000 of shares in Lehman Brothers you would have $0.00 today. But, if you purchased $1,000 worth of beer, drank all the beer, turned in the aluminum cans for recycling, you would have $214.00.
Therefore the best current investment plan is to drink heavily & recycle. It is called the 401-Keg Plan..."

It's funny how these threads get taken all over the place.