The IMPORTED ENGLISH Orpington Thread

[thedragonlady]

I done something kinda interesting yesterday, I got one of my Orpington bantam pullets that has gone to setting & will not have it any other way her eggs are not fertile so I slipped 4 of my LF eggs under her & that is about all she can cover of them, It will be funny watching her running around raising these chicks cause in about 6 weeks they will be as big as she is, But she was determined so now she has a job, anybody else tried this with a bantam ?

I had a little white Silkie hen years ago that was an unbreakable broody. I gave her 2 Canada Goose eggs. She hatched them , and had a fit when they went swimming ! That poor hen would run around the pan when those babies were ducking and diving, as she was sure they would drown. Bath complete, those babies would run under her to dry off, and warm up.

 

[rockinpaints]

I do not usually post anything on BYC but I thought I would share with everyone what is occurring within my flock.

I purchased my flock from a breeder in May 2012 and they were sold as 100% Pure Black English Orpingtons. I have now started hatching from this flock and I have hatched several Mottled/Spangled chicks. Due to this it started me on a journey to investigate the background of my flock. That investigation determined the following:

· In approximately 2008-2009 the breeder that imported this line out crossed the American Mottled/Spangled Orpington into this line to create the Mottled/Spangle Orpington.

· The Pure English Mottled/Spangled Orpington was not imported into the United States until 2011.

Since I have proof that my line is not 100% Pure Black English Orpingtons (see picture of mottled chick) I am wondering about the background of the Black/Blue/Splash Pure English Orpingtons being advertised and sold at auction. I have also included pictures of the parent stock.

First I want to say, I'll take the little spangled ....

Having imported my self I just wanted to chime in a bit. I post a lot of pictures, mostly of the nice birds (but I have been known to post the "dogs" too

from time to time) so no one actually knows what all came from the imported birds, even myself I am finding. I have culled a lot of the birds I imported and will continue to do so. For reasons like combs, color, yellow skin and type. I don't cull so much for the leg feathering but we see a lot of it.

Just because they came from the other side of the pond by no means will make them perfect. (hope this isn't sound stern as I only want it to sound informational). They can have the same kind of faults we have over here (in some cases maybe worse) and we have no way of knowing if the birds they are sending us are going to be perfect. It would take generations and years of breeding of one specific line to know that. I have shipped to Canada and the same applies. I hope they got some nice birds from the ones I sent but I sure couldn't guarantee show quality.

Comparing 4 white roosters that I imported supposedly brothers, number 1 was just about perfect, number 2 had yellow barring-beautiful huge boy, but obvious yellow barring-, number 3 now a year old has black columbian markings around his neck......where did that come from

- beautiful big boy but definitely columbian, and number 4 probably goes 6 pounds at best - surely he is not from England

.

As far as the white hens most were very nice but am now seeing some yellowing on a couple of them and there is quite a size difference, smallest being about 6 pounds and the largest a whoppen 11 pounds

. (This is just comparing the whites.......)

I don't usually share this much information (most breeders don't) but my point is a lot of people think just because they are "imported" they come with a "perfect" tag on them, and that is just not the case. Unless buyers just want pretty yard candy (which is true in most cases and is perfectly fine) it will take a lot of participation and continued culling.

I could go on but I think you get the idea. Julie would probably be the best to talk about the long road on the perfect bird. I have said it before and will say it again, she has about the best English Orps I have seen yet and she has spent years of hard work on her line, and it shows. She is so devoted to that one variety that there is a pretty good bet that almost anything that leaves Julies farm could go to the show ring and that is saying a lot.

I think you are doing the right thing to investigate the background as it is a good thing to know, and always good to get as much information as you can in case of any genetic issues in the future ( or mottling

). But it doesn't always mean the breeder was being dishonest. I'm just sayin......

 

[Blarneyeggs]

I do not usually post anything on BYC but I thought I would share with everyone what is occurring within my flock. [SIZE=16pt]I purchased my flock from a breeder in May 2012 and they were sold as 100% Pure Black English Orpingtons. I have now started hatching from this flock and I have hatched several Mottled/Spangled chicks. [/SIZE] [SIZE=16pt]Due to this it started me on a journey to investigate the background of my flock. That investigation determined the following:[/SIZE] Very cool looking. Love the head.

I am in the UK so not imported Here are my three hatched one per day over the Easter weekend. We don't know if they are Hens or Roos but it shouldn't be too long before we can tell. They have some leg rings now to aid identification. Boris is Red, Godzilla is Green and Legless is Blue. Boris was the first to hatch followed by Godzilla and finally Legless. Legless is the one with the stubby tail as well.

​

Love this pic.

 

[Blarneyeggs]

I had a little white Silkie hen years ago that was an unbreakable broody. I gave her 2 Canada Goose eggs. She hatched them , and had a fit when they went swimming ! That poor hen would run around the pan when those babies were ducking and diving, as she was sure they would drown. Bath complete, those babies would run under her to dry off, and warm up.

Too funny. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[rockinpaints]

I am in the UK so not imported
Here are my three hatched one per day over the Easter weekend.

We don't know if they are Hens or Roos but it shouldn't be too long before we can tell.
They have some leg rings now to aid identification.
Boris is Red, Godzilla is Green and Legless is Blue.
Boris was the first to hatch followed by Godzilla and finally Legless.
Legless is the one with the stubby tail as well.

​

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Awww! I love splash!

I hatched and kept 8 for myself and now discover only one is a pullet

......

 

[rockinpaints]

I had a little white Silkie hen years ago that was an unbreakable broody. I gave her 2 Canada Goose eggs. She hatched them , and had a fit when they went swimming ! That poor hen would run around the pan when those babies were ducking and diving, as she was sure they would drown. Bath complete, those babies would run under her to dry off, and warm up.

I can see it now

Poor little hen.........

 

[aveca]

First I want to say, I'll take the little spangled ....
Having imported my self I just wanted to chime in a bit.  I post a lot of pictures, mostly of the nice birds (but I have been known to post the "dogs" too  from time to time) so no one actually knows what all came from the imported birds, even myself I am finding.  I have culled a lot of the birds I imported and will continue to do so.  For reasons like combs, color, yellow skin and type.  I don't cull so much for the leg feathering but we see a lot of it.

Just because they came from the other side of the pond by no means will make them perfect. (hope this isn't sound stern as I only want it to sound informational).  They can have the same kind of faults we have over here (in some cases maybe worse) and we have no way of knowing if the birds they are sending us are going to be perfect.  It would take generations and years of breeding of one specific line to know that.  I have shipped to Canada and the same applies.  I hope they got some nice birds from the ones I sent but I sure couldn't guarantee show quality.

Comparing 4 white roosters that I imported supposedly brothers, number 1 was just about perfect, number 2 had yellow barring-beautiful huge boy, but obvious yellow barring-,  number 3 now a year old has black columbian markings around his neck......where did that come from - beautiful big boy but definitely columbian, and number 4 probably goes 6 pounds at best - surely he is not from England :/ .   

As far as the white hens most were very nice but am now seeing some yellowing on a couple of them and there is quite a size difference, smallest being about 6 pounds and the largest a whoppen 11 pounds .  (This is just comparing the whites.......)

I don't usually share this much information (most breeders don't) but my point is a lot of people think just because they are "imported" they come with a "perfect" tag on them, and that is just not the case.  Unless buyers just want pretty yard candy (which is true in most cases and is perfectly fine) it will take a lot of participation and continued culling.

I could go on but I think you get the idea.  Julie would probably be the best to talk about the long road on the perfect bird.  I have said it before and will say it again, she has about the best English Orps I have seen yet and she has spent years of hard work on her line, and it shows.  She is so devoted to that one variety that there is a pretty good bet that almost anything that leaves Julies farm could go to the show ring and that is saying a lot. 

I think you are doing the right thing to investigate the background as it is a good thing to know, and always good to get as much information as you can in case of any genetic issues in the future ( or mottling ).  But it doesn't always mean the breeder was being dishonest.        I'm just sayin......

theres an old saying..if you want a perfect finish, buy a new car..chickens have large gene pool to draw from..the whites became almost extinct here, and scarce at best in europe..the white and blk rosecomb orps long gone yet they remain in the english standard..perfect doesnt exist..we just keep working in that direction..i see little imperfections and smile to myself..not that big a deal when you see the overall picture..the type is just too good,, right down to the redish bey eye..
a slow road to recovery of a nearly lost type..i will do the same here..cull for the best, i will need to hatch quite a few ..a true labor of love for me.

julie is an inspiration to all us, it has been a joy to watch her progress in here over the years.

 

[rebel yell]

Good point gals, If we didn't have something to work toward what would be the point in all this, nothing is perfect & never will be that is what makes breeding these birds so interesting.

 

[thedragonlady]

First I want to say, I'll take the little spangled ....

Having imported my self I just wanted to chime in a bit. I post a lot of pictures, mostly of the nice birds (but I have been known to post the "dogs" too

from time to time) so no one actually knows what all came from the imported birds, even myself I am finding. I have culled a lot of the birds I imported and will continue to do so. For reasons like combs, color, yellow skin and type. I don't cull so much for the leg feathering but we see a lot of it.

Just because they came from the other side of the pond by no means will make them perfect. (hope this isn't sound stern as I only want it to sound informational). They can have the same kind of faults we have over here (in some cases maybe worse) and we have no way of knowing if the birds they are sending us are going to be perfect. It would take generations and years of breeding of one specific line to know that. I have shipped to Canada and the same applies. I hope they got some nice birds from the ones I sent but I sure couldn't guarantee show quality.

Comparing 4 white roosters that I imported supposedly brothers, number 1 was just about perfect, number 2 had yellow barring-beautiful huge boy, but obvious yellow barring-, number 3 now a year old has black columbian markings around his neck......where did that come from

- beautiful big boy but definitely columbian, and number 4 probably goes 6 pounds at best - surely he is not from England

.

As far as the white hens most were very nice but am now seeing some yellowing on a couple of them and there is quite a size difference, smallest being about 6 pounds and the largest a whoppen 11 pounds

. (This is just comparing the whites.......)

I don't usually share this much information (most breeders don't) but my point is a lot of people think just because they are "imported" they come with a "perfect" tag on them, and that is just not the case. Unless buyers just want pretty yard candy (which is true in most cases and is perfectly fine) it will take a lot of participation and continued culling.

I could go on but I think you get the idea. Julie would probably be the best to talk about the long road on the perfect bird. I have said it before and will say it again, she has about the best English Orps I have seen yet and she has spent years of hard work on her line, and it shows. She is so devoted to that one variety that there is a pretty good bet that almost anything that leaves Julies farm could go to the show ring and that is saying a lot.

I think you are doing the right thing to investigate the background as it is a good thing to know, and always good to get as much information as you can in case of any genetic issues in the future ( or mottling

). But it doesn't always mean the breeder was being dishonest. I'm just sayin......

Good post Nellie ! Breeders, both here and in Europe, have tried so many things to improve color and type in Orps., that almost anything might jump out in the generations we are now breeding. In Buffs, and Whites, we have to fight the Rock blood. In Blacks, lots have blue and splash in their background. Only a handful of breeders who export have any longevity in the breeds and varieties they ship. If you haven't bred a line for 10, or 15 years, and cleaned up the gene pool , you can only make an educated and hopeful guess as to what may be produced.

 

[rockinpaints]

Good post Nellie ! Breeders, both here and in Europe, have tried so many things to improve color and type in Orps., that almost anything might jump out in the generations we are now breeding. In Buffs, and Whites, we have to fight the Rock blood. In Blacks, lots have blue and splash in their background. Only a handful of breeders who export have any longevity in the breeds and varieties they ship. If you haven't bred a line for 10, or 15 years, and cleaned up the gene pool , you can only make an educated and hopeful guess as to what may be produced.

And now with the chocolates, record keeping is sooooooo important with the visibly black split to chocolate roosters, which will reek havoc in the blue line if unknowingly used. Once the black splits get into circulation it will be impossible to know which ones they are.

After careful consideration we have decided to toe punch any blacks born to our chocolates. ( Toe punching

a new venture for me) We don't know at birth which are pullets and which are cockerels as only the cockerels can be split to chocolate but both will be toe punched for permanent identification. It is my understanding it is vital to breed chocolate back to black occasionally to keep the deep chocolate color, but there should be a permanent identification for the splits.

It's not a fix all as we are only one tiny part of the breeding community but it is our contribution.