The IMPORTED ENGLISH Orpington Thread

[HighStreetCoop]

Quote:
Right, the issue was they had hidden split lavenders in their blue and splash birds and were thus getting black birds and declaring that black could be produced from Blue and Splash without understanding the actual genetics taking place. Of course you can use a blue bird in a lavender program just as you would a black, but there's no reason that I'm aware of to use lavenders in a BBS program and muddying up the genetics with them just causes confusion down the road for people who get chicks from you. That was all I was saying.

 

[Cearbhael]

You CAN put a blue roo with a chocolate hen and make muave! I've ONLY heard it this way but I figured there was other ways also. Just make 2 breeding pens! A Blue roo with chocolate hens! Then put a chocolate roo with blue hens! Then just make sure when you incubate them just separate the eggs and then you can see which looks more like muave! Then once you figure it out continue with them

That would be interesting. The calculator gave me all black progeny, some split some not. Took me totally by surprise. Was wondering if I did something wrong. I take morphine for chronic pain due to a 25 ft fall off a ladder to a concrete floor and I have short term memory issues so I DO make errors. I am going to run that through again and see what happens. Of course, this was the 1st generation and maybe bred back to a choc too, some mauve would pop out? Thing is the choc roo over blue hens produced mauve in the 1st gen. I would figure that would be the preferable result.

 

[Cearbhael]

Right, the issue was they had hidden split lavenders in their blue and splash birds and were thus getting black birds and declaring that black could be produced from Blue and Splash without understanding the actual genetics taking place. Of course you can use a blue bird in a lavender program just as you would a black, but there's no reason that I'm aware of to use lavenders in a BBS program and muddying up the genetics with them just causes confusion down the road for people who get chicks from you. That was all I was saying.

Probably it is an issue of information at point of sale. For instance, in my Isabelle/Crele program the Crele roosters I may pass on will be split to Lavender, so I should, in all fairness, disclose that to the person taking the bird.
Jeremy is right, if you keep good records, make sure you know the genetics of your birds, and disclose those facts to potential buyers, there really shouldn't be mass confusion. One of the problems going forward, is ignorance, poor record keeping or downright dishonesty. I had read a post from a woman who covered her Buff Orps with a Black Austalorp. She said they looked like Partridge Orps, and was wondering if she could sell them as such. Well, obviously the answer was NO! However, consider if she hadn't been honest enough to ask and just went ahead and did it? I am sure it happens, and unfortunately that adds to the "mass confusion"

 

[HighStreetCoop]

Probably it is an issue of information at point of sale. For instance, in my Isabelle/Crele program the Crele roosters I may pass on will be split to Lavender, so I should, in all fairness, disclose that to the person taking the bird.

Yes, people selling project birds without disclosing that that's what they are is what caused the problem, but I also simply don't see WHY you would mix lavender birds into a BBS pen. I can't figure out what they would bring to the BBS (whereas adding black or blue into your lavender pen can bring better feather quality, better size, and better conformation). The Goal is the question for me. Jeremy knows waaaaay more about genetics than I probably ever will though so it's entirely possible there's some nuance I'm missing.

 

[Cearbhael]

You CAN put a blue roo with a chocolate hen and make muave! I've ONLY heard it this way but I figured there was other ways also. Just make 2 breeding pens! A Blue roo with chocolate hens! Then put a chocolate roo with blue hens! Then just make sure when you incubate them just separate the eggs and then you can see which looks more like muave! Then once you figure it out continue with them

Hey, did the calculator and seems you get blue pullets, black split to choc etc. I did notice that no matter what I tried, the silver laced disappeared in all blue, choc and mauve birds replaced with "unicolour laced?"
Is this due to a limitation in the calculator or is it saying it can't be done? I am going to try blue unicolour over black silver laced and see what happens. There should, you would think be blue silver laced in the results. Maybe the blue laced too option is what is the issue. Maybe unicolour lacing over rides silver lacing?

 

[Cearbhael]

Whoo hoo! Yes!! I took a blue, unlaced rooster over a black silver laced hen. Got a blue unicolour laced rooster and a blue unicolour laced hen. (As expected) Refusing to be discouraged I crossed the two together and what do you know... There is a chance to get blue silver laced!!! Bad news, there are lots of odds that the lacing will be incomplete. However, if you can get a blue silver laced in both a roo and a hen that is complete, your odds of incomplete lacing should drop to near 0 but you will get splash silver laced in blue and black and black silver laced as well. I suppose at that point you start to introduce chocolate? The other way around would be to work towards an unlaced mauve roo and use that over a black silver laced and look for mauve laced babies. Cross one of the resulting mauve laced hens with one of the mauve laced Roos and again you should have a chance for mauve silver laced with high odds of incomplete lacing. Find two with complete lacing and you will have your mauve silver laced, blue silver laced, splash silver laced, chocolate silver laced, and black silver laced. With the blue gene in there you will have pot luck, but if you continue to breed your best Mauves, they will Improve. I would think you may have to breed back to a good black silver laced to improve type every so often.
Now, I wonder, maybe it would be better to work towards getting choc silver laced 1st and then toss in a really great unlaced blue Roo. Hmmm... So many roads, so many intersections.
Good luck!! My Isabelle/Crele program is going to be a walk in the park!! You and I opened a real can of worms but the resulting offspring are going to be so colourful, I am looking forward to the day I join you in that plunge. Hope I helped by finding out that keeping the 1st choc and blue Roos introduced to the program should NOT be unicolour laced, if you want the silver lacing to pop out. The 1st gen unicolour laced chicks are the only ones you want to use

 

[greeneggsnham]

OMG OMG OMG I can finally join this thread!

Today I managed to find someone local to get some english orps from! Pretty much as soon as they said yes I took off on the drive about an hour away to pick them up. I got four from him and I couldnt be happier. Ignore the red mat next to them. The floor of the temporary brooder was kind of slick so I added some traction.

They came from a pen that also had a frizzle roo and I think this one is going to take after him. What do you guys think?

 

[emalin]

Male or female? I think female. . .even though her name is Rooster. (4 year old in the house!)

 

[Cearbhael]

OMG OMG OMG I can finally join this thread! e Today I managed to find someone local to get some english orps from! Pretty much as soon as they said yes I took off on the drive about an hour away to pick them up. I got four from him and I couldnt be happier. Ignore the red mat next to them. The floor of the temporary brooder was kind of slick so I added some traction. The mat is HIGHLY recommended for brooder flooring. They can be washed and reused too. As to the last chick, he sure looks a little Frizzled. Congrats on your new babies. They came from a pen that also had a frizzle roo and I think this one is going to take after him. What do you guys think?

 

[Cearbhael]

This is the second time the quote went in and my reply disappeared into thin air!!
Congrats on your babies.
The mat is an excellent flooring for baby chick brooders. Can be washed and reused too!
I think you're right about that little chick, he looks a tad Frizzled to me!