The IMPORTED ENGLISH Orpington Thread

[orpington man]

Hi,
the blue jubilee were created by first making blue mottled, these were then put to jubilee, the blue mottles carrying the jubilee gene then put to jubilee to produce a percentage of blue jubilee, these then are mated back to jubilee each time to give you 50% of each, it was a fun project i did with bantams, never got round to doing it with large fowl, Keith Gibbons at keiths-orps.co.uk had blue mottled hens carrying the jubilee gene off me to mate back to his jubilees, he is carrying on with this project and should have pictures of them on his site,
Sandy it matters not which way round you mate goldlaced and jubilee in your quest to make tolbunt, best to do both and make 2 bloodlines!
back to the legbar orpingtons, i really can't think why it would take 20 years to produce unless starting from absolute scratch with totally different breeds and then having to get back to type, the true legbar is no more than a crele carrying 2 doses of the barring gene and follows the same genetics as cuckoo to breed true, using partridge cockerel over cuckoo hen which is the way i would do it because the cuckoo orp hens are a larger and better type than the partridge hens would get you to legbar orps in 3 generations, i personally believe the imported legbar orp were created using birds carrying the barred not cuckoo genes and a cock breeding line of partridge, this would sharpen up the markings in the cockerels, the whites have turned up in that line because somebody in the past had used whites with their barreds to clean up the markings, whites can come out of any of the cuckoo types if they are carrying the reccessive gene for white,
The following formula is how i made my creles, blue creles were made by substituting blue partridge for gold partridge, this formula works to produce crele whatever the breed and is how the original legbars were created,

partridge (male) X cuckoo (female)
|
|​

________________________________

| |
cuckoo(male) black (female)
(single factor) (culled)​

|
|
cuckoo(male) X partridge (female)
(single factor) |
|

_________________________________________________________________ | | | | |
cuckoo black cuckoo partridge partridge​

(single factor)

sibling mating of cuckoo partridge is next step to making crele/legbar which will breed true

cuckoo partridge (male) X cuckoo partridge(female)​

(single factor) | (single factor)
|
___________________________________________________________ | | | | |
cuckoo partridge cuckoo partridge cuckoo partridge partridge
(male) (male) (female) (female)
crele legbar (crele) crele
(single factor) (double factor) ( single factor)



both the crele with one dose of barring factor and legbar/crele with two doses can be mated to the same crele hens which also carry a single dose, only the legbar/crele carrying two doses will breed 100% true,
this for anybody wishing to make them is the surest route to take

Bob




|

 

[rockinpaints]

Wish i had a black barred orp roo to use in the mix....

(or cuckoo besides the lemon) Thank you for the compliment maloneyb, I'm working it. The birds are actually quite large (Lemon Cuckoo Orp size). With this next generation, they are far enough along I am willing to share some eggs if anyone is working on this project..........

 

[OSUman]

You can most likely get Cuckoo if you cross a black with a white.

 

[Marthab1953]

Those Crele are pretty!

 

[galanie]

Hi,
the blue jubilee were created by first making blue mottled, these were then put to jubilee, the blue mottles carrying the jubilee gene then put to jubilee to produce a percentage of blue jubilee, these then are mated back to jubilee each time to give you 50% of each, it was a fun project i did with bantams, never got round to doing it with large fowl, Keith Gibbons at keiths-orps.co.uk had blue mottled hens carrying the jubilee gene off me to mate back to his jubilees, he is carrying on with this project and should have pictures of them on his site,
Sandy it matters not which way round you mate goldlaced and jubilee in your quest to make tolbunt, best to do both and make 2 bloodlines!
back to the legbar orpingtons, i really can't think why it would take 20 years to produce unless starting from absolute scratch with totally different breeds and then having to get back to type, the true legbar is no more than a crele carrying 2 doses of the barring gene and follows the same genetics as cuckoo to breed true, using  partridge cockerel over cuckoo hen which is the way i would do it because the cuckoo orp hens are a larger and better type than the partridge hens would get you to legbar orps in 3 generations, i personally believe the imported legbar orp were created using birds carrying the barred not cuckoo genes and a cock breeding line of partridge, this would sharpen up the markings in the cockerels, the whites have turned up in that line because somebody in the past had used whites with their barreds to clean up the markings, whites can come out of any of the cuckoo types if they are carrying the reccessive gene for white,
The following formula is how i made my creles, blue creles were made by substituting blue partridge for gold partridge, this formula works to produce crele whatever the breed and is how the original legbars were created,

 partridge  (male)       X         cuckoo (female)​

  |  ​

  | ​

                                       

________________________________​

|                                                    |​

 cuckoo(male)                                                                         black (female)​

 (single factor)                                                                        (culled)​

 

|​

|​

                                                         
             cuckoo(male)                              X                                      partridge (female)
             (single factor)                              |
                                                               |

            _________________________________________________________________                                                                                                     |        |                               |                               |                                |    ​

 cuckoo                      black             cuckoo partridge                   partridge​

(single factor)...................................................(single factor).......... (single factor)​

   sibling mating of cuckoo  partridge is next step to making crele/legbar which will breed true

        cuckoo partridge (male)                 X                    cuckoo partridge(female)​

               

 (single factor)                               |                            (single factor)​

|​

                                   
   ___________________________________________________________   
                              |         |                                   |                              |                              |
 cuckoo partridge         cuckoo partridge         cuckoo partridge              partridge
     (male)                        (male)                     (female)                       (female)
     crele                     legbar (crele)                  crele
 (single factor)           (double factor)             ( single factor)



    both the crele with one dose of barring factor and legbar/crele with two doses can be mated to the same crele hens which also carry a single dose, only the  legbar/crele carrying two doses will breed 100% true,                   
this for anybody wishing to make them is the surest route to take

Bob            

just trying to straighten the chart. not sure if I've got it right or not, specifically the line" (single factor)...................."

 

[orpington man]

Spent nearly 4 hours editing and re-editing to get that graph staight and thought i had cracked it, looks like i didn't its all gone haywire again and i doubt anybody can make head nor tail of it,

it should have read partridge male x cuckoo female = cuckoo male single factor, black females,

cuckoo male single factor x partridge females = offspring in cuckoo single factor, black, cuckoo partridge single factor and partridge,

a sibling mating of cuckoo partridge male single factor x cuckoo partridge single factor female =
cuckoo partridge single factor (crele), cuckoo partridge double factor (legbar), cuckoo partridge female single factor (crele) and partridge females,

hopefully this will clear up any confusion i might have caused
Bob

 

[galanie]

Thanks, Bob. On my screen the chart pretty much says that, but your explanation here helps fill the gaps.

 

[OSUman]

Here is a chart similar to what you were making Bob. You just switch the Barred with a Cuckoo orp, and the Brown Leghorn with a Partridge.

 

[rockinpaints]

You can most likely get Cuckoo if you cross a black with a white.

Yeah, I tried that but they really didn't breed true. Sometimes they were cuckoo sometimes they were mottled, a lot of times black but never pure white. I think it would take a few generations to perfect the barring in order to use it...........
Back to the drawing board..

............ Stay tuned for further updates

 

[OSUman]

I have talked to a couple people that have done the cross successfully in both bantams and large fowl.

Yeah, I tried that but they really didn't breed true. Sometimes they were cuckoo sometimes they were mottled, a lot of times black but never pure white. I think it would take a few generations to perfect the barring in order to use it...........
Back to the drawing board..

............ Stay tuned for further updates