The IMPORTED ENGLISH Orpington Thread

[jeremy]

Because it only creates a tracking nightmare!

Only if you don't know how to keep good records.

and there are other issues.

Probably the most "controversial" topic as to using Blues to bred Lavenders would be the introduction of the pattern gene (Pg/Pg) to your line of Lavenders. Now, this does not mean that the resulting Lavender offspring would be laced like Blues. Rather, they would show faint signs of carrying the pattern gene, like you can see in a Black bird that is the result of a Blue breeding.

For example, you can see lacing in my Black hen's neck feathers here:


Lavender, aka "Self Blue", "self" meaning the plumage of the bird being entirely one solid color... the argument the opposition was using was that if Lavender birds carried the pattern gene, they themselves were then patterned (laced) and could no longer be considered "self".

Which is BS, IMO. My black hen above is Black, Self Black, no matter if she carries the pattern gene or not. The same can be said for Lavender birds who carry the pattern gene.

but since it creates a genetic nightmare

It will only create a "genetic nightmare" if you don't understand genetics.

 

[jeremy]

OK, basics of the lavender gene:

...

I understand the genetics of BBS, & Lavender. Thank you though for your reiteration.

What is the usual eye color of splash chickens?

It should be dark brown/black, just as it is with Blue & Black birds.

 

[jeremy]

Perhaps I've misunderstood the genetics (you know waaaay more than I do), but mixing the lav genes in means people are getting black birds when they shouldn't and when they wouldn't predict that they would. There was mass confusion because of this on another thread where someone was getting black chicks from splash and blue parents and couldn't figure out why.

Genetics are proven fact, yes mutations can occur, but it's very, very rare. We know how genes behave, and why.

If someone is getting Black birds from a Splash X Blue breeding then they are incorrect about the color of their parent birds.

It's genetically impossible to get Black anything when using a Splash for breeding.

The "mass confusion" you mentioned again is most likely due to lack of understanding of genetics...

 

[jeremy]

Blue can be split to lav however, no one with a lavender or blue program would want it!!! The split blue will only screw their program up.

Incorrect.

How is a Blue split to Lav any different than a Black split to Lav?

Other than the obvious answer that a Blue bird has a 1 copy of the Blue gene whereas the Black bird does not.

 

[jeremy]

It boils down to this folks...

You can use Blues to breed better Lavenders, there's no difference in using them and in using Blacks.

Proper record keeping, knowing which birds carry which genes, (which is easy to do if you're a responsible breeder) is the key here.

Laziness is what has created this hysteria around using Blues to breed Lavs. That or lack of education on the way genes work. Or just people being unable to comprehend that there is more than one way to breed for a certain color.

 

[Cearbhael]

O

It boils down to this folks...

You can use Blues to breed better Lavenders, there's no difference in using them and in using Blacks.

Proper record keeping, knowing which birds carry which genes, (which is easy to do if you're a responsible breeder) is the key here.

Laziness is what has created this hysteria around using Blues to breed Lavs. That or lack of education on the way genes work. Or just people being unable to comprehend that there is more than one way to breed for a certain color.

Only reiterating what I was told when I mentioned having blue lavender and chocolate in together. I was told it was a genetic and record keeping nightmare. It was for thar reason I decided to go with Isabelle/Crele, I then figured I could use blue with chocolate and silver lacing in another pen and have lots of pretty blue/Choc/Mauve birds. I definitely know nothing about chicken colour genetics, but love blue and Lavender. Have a blue dog, blue cat (bicolored) and a Lilac Siamese cat (same colour as Lavender).

 

[Cearbhael]

I take it the "Jeremy" every seems to mention if there is a complicated genetics question going on. You must not have been following the discussion, back when I mentioned having blues instead of black to improve the lavenders. At which point I was told in no uncertain terms to keep lavender birds out of the blue pen. If you had been around I would have gotten better advice, obviously. I was told you would be the person to ask about my colour questions.
Thanks VERY much for setting the record straight. Maybe I will toss lavender into the blue/ choc/mauve pen after all.

 

[Cearbhael]

Sorry, my brain must be fudge...
Meant to say: You must be the Jeremy everyone mentions, when there is a colour question that needs answering.

 

[Cearbhael]

Oh and one more request while I have the floor and your around! What book would you recommend to learn more about chicken colour genetics. Something that will be thorough and shows lots of pictorial examples.

 

[McCoyPoultry]

You CAN put a blue roo with a chocolate hen and make muave! I've ONLY heard it this way but I figured there was other ways also. Just make 2 breeding pens! A Blue roo with chocolate hens! Then put a chocolate roo with blue hens! Then just make sure when you incubate them just separate the eggs and then you can see which looks more like muave! Then once you figure it out continue with them