The Welsummer Thread!!!!

[faykokoWV]

I guess I can start some commentary on the pictures from the little that I was told. Some faults- the rooster in picture # 2 has too muc of a yellow/orange tint in his feathering, both his wattles and the hens wattles are too long.

In picture number three - there is too much black in the hackles

 

[vanalpaca]

I'd also like to know how different our STANDARD is from the British Standard, the Dutch Standard, and the German Standard. Here in the US it "sounds like' we are culling for a black breasted rooster and I thought it is supposed to have another color in there, it just doesn't give a scientific percentage, like, "20% brown feathering preferred on chest". Also, I'd like to know how others are with getting EGGS from their birds. It sounds like from reading the history of the bird that when they went to selecting for color, egg production dropped drastically.

I really want a bird to lay more than 1 egg every 3 days. How often are your girls laying eggs and what size eggs do you usually get (like how many ounces?)

I'm still trying to get chicks hatched and waiting for those in the mail. But a bird needs to at least make it's own feed bill in eggs or meat or chicks to be sustainable?

I really don't want to breed for a solid black chested rooster when some reddish in there is so much prettier? Got the info off the articles from the links on the Welsummer Club of North America site....

I'm confused.......

Thanks, Bonnie

 

[EweSheep]

Let me see if I can explain it better with the knowledge I've known and a bunch of emails LOL! If I am wrong or misinterpretation the standard, please chime in.

We Americans are more specific in what we want in our standards in Welsummers however for some breeders like Nate, want to keep the Dutch standard on his birds for his Dutch Welsummers instead of going "American". Just like Arabians and their heritage, some of us would keep our lines pure according to the origin they came from.

The British do not want too much brown in the chest (like the Whitmore roo pictured, having too much brown) or solid black with no brown feathers anywhere from the chest to back of his rear end. So 20 percent is more ideal of how much brown you want in a Welsummer. If you want German or have German Welsummers (correct me if I am wrong!) are a bit darker, more richer in color than the Dutch Welsummers and two different origins would produce alot of different contracts in color specifically what they are breeding for. Too much red in chest are very distracting and not original to the breed what the original breeders are trying to create and it is up to us to maintain the genetic make up of the Welsummer trait itself. An odd chick must be culled out of the breeding stock because you do not want to pollute the genetic pool you are trying to create.

The egg production are pretty good in some lines while others were NOT made for egg production and focused on the standard itself. Many breeders back then wanted a dual purpose bird that lays a good number of eggs per year AND good table fowl for eating. Some will breed for utility and there ARE breeders out there that would do just focus on one thing. I think egg production is important as well as the good egg color, must be terra cotta, not chocolate or regular brown eggs such like the Barred Rocks.

If you DO get an excellent quality bird that meets almost all the standards (there is never such a perfect bird but try to get as close as you can!) and she does not have good egg production, breed her to a roo that is known for good laying qualities.

With the high feed bills, I daresay that most of us do not profit from selling eggs for hatching, or meat, or egg consumption. People do willing to pay a bit more for darker eggs if they are "favored" for the breed or just the novelty of the color itself or for breeding/raising their own Welsummers from your lines.

Does this help or do I need to clarify more? Let me know and I will do the best I can. The others can chime in.

 

[vanalpaca]

One of the questions I am thinking is the business of always putting 'a red roo' over the hens. So WHERE should the red be for this roo?

The article was saying how by having the red roo, one could always breed birds from their own flock and be fine breeding Welsummers. Is this just an old idea or is it pertinent today?

I have about a year before all these chicks grow up and I understand that they continue growing for another 6 months or so.

Are there pictures of the different main stock in US? Like isn't the Erhard line from Germany, so that would be a lot different than Nate's lines which he was trying to go pure Dutch?

Calicowoods was Barber, same genetics, right?

But Grisham and Hall are different strains so where do they fit in?

Some have the super dark eggs, some the lighter ones with really dark splotching. I'm seeing quite a variety in the shipping eggs I've had in from 4 different breeders......All nice size eggs, though. Mostly LARGE!

Then they were saying about the eggs is that selecting for the darkest eggs reduced the production.

Not expecting a bird to pay it's ENTIRE food bill, but it should be able to make a pretty good contribution in eggs. Especially if it is a slow grower. So it DOES make sense to try to preserve the higher egg counts and not sacrifice it for plumage or dark maran type egg color. Even a Barnie is good for 200 eggs and this was part Barnie genetics.

 

[Happy Chooks]

I agree with Ewesheep.

I have 2 wellie girls of laying age, one is in the breeding flock and one is not. (she doesn't have proper coloring, so she's just a layer) Both of them lay 5 eggs a week. (yes, I keep track with a spreadsheet

) Egg size is pretty good, I thought they were a great size until I got Kim's - her eggs were JUMBO, so obviously now I want that.

I'm hoping to breed them keeping a good layer of great colored eggs (I'd like the egg size larger, but they are 1 1/2 years old and haven't been through a hard molt yet) as well as keep to the standard. I don't plan to make money at it, I just want to do it, but if I sell a few eggs to pay for some feed occasionally, then I'm happy.

I don't think breeding to a solid black chest is preferred, some red is supposed to be in it, but not too much. My rooster doesn't have much red in his chest, but he has some on his thigh feathers.

 

[vanalpaca]

I figured a chicken can feed me with her eggs, her chicks or herself. Sell the eggs, sell the chicks, grow out and sell the chicks. In the meantime I enjoy the process of 'playing with chickens and chicken breeding'.

Already I can't eat as many eggs as my 4 laying hens are producing and they would eat less $$ feed if they could free range. (Tractor not built and hawks a problem!)

I'm thinking I should go weigh the eggs I just set in the 'bator. Esp since it says an egg should lose 13-14% of it's weight by day 18.... but that would tell me which were the larger eggs.

BUT.... Larger eggs = fewer eggs per year, right? larger and more eggs also means lighter eggs over time.

Are there lines in the US that have concentrated on higher egg production while trying to cull to the standard?

Also, anyone comment yet on the faults of the two roos posted earlier? It would help A LOT for us newbies as a learning tool.

Thanks all, I do appreciate your efforts to enlighten me!

Cheers, waiting for an egg to pip or peep tonight. I checked half in the hatcher on the water test and only 1 had a heartbeat! Left the others in though as heat sinks....

Isn't Cassidy a cute Wellie chick? I decided since she will probably have a very short life with that bum leg, to honor her thus! She was from an especially large DARK egg out of Alabama. She was my very first wellie to hatch. My friend hadn't set the eggs down to the bottom in her sportsman when she left for the weekend and Cassidy hatched up in the egg turner and musta got tangled coming down.

 

[faykokoWV]

Quote:
Can you post pictures of each of them so we can see what are the positive features of the breeder vs the negative of the layer?

 

[Happy Chooks]

Sure.

Here is a girl I'm growing out from my hen, Cleopatra and my rooster, Moose. I think she has great coloring.

Not the greatest picture of her, but this is Cleopatra:

This is my hen with improper coloring, Feisty. And of course she lays the darker eggs:

 

[faykokoWV]

wow, that is a dramatic difference in coloring. I think even a beginner like me can pick that one out! Thanks for sharing the pictures!

Is cleopatra's tail a little on the short side?

Also, her body shape is nice and plump, I like that! She's much thicker through the neck than my girls are.

 

[Happy Chooks]

Her tail is normal length, I think it's just the angle of the picture that makes it look that way. She's not perfect, but if she keeps giving me babies like the one I'm growing out, then she's staying for a while.


And yes, Feisty was a pretty easy one to figure out and remove her from breeding. (and I'm a beginner too)