Turkey Talk for 2014

[TattooedMama]

Congrats on your new babies. Looks like a colorful bunch.

Glad you could get some turkeys back.

Thank you!! I am so excited. I am a turkey person hands down. I had them 2 hours and was ready to sell all my chickens already lol.

 

[TattooedMama]

Mycoplasma, oh that is terrible. Were the turkeys really sick? I bet you posted about it, but I don't always keep up with threads I subscribe to here.

2 years ago, I got Lilac turkeys from Kevin Porter. This year, I had laying problems with my two hens. They just weren't laying. When all my other turkeys were laying gangbusters, I got just 3 good eggs, which didn't hatch, and a bunch of shell-less eggs. Kevin sent me Bronze hatching eggs this year, all 5 hatched. My plan is to set up two different breeding pens next year, assuming I have both sexes of the Bronze: one will be Lilac tom over Bronze hens, the other Bronze tom over Lilac hens. This breeding will produce all Red Slate. Then the following year, I'll take Red Slates from each breeding group and cross them. That will produce 50% Red Slate and 50% Lilac. So hopefully this plan will increase the size of the Lilacs as well as their vigor and hatchability. I had trouble with my two Blue Red Bronze hens this year, too. Most of their eggs would start developing and then quit, mostly early on, but some late. I suspect these just need an outcross. The inexplicably, one of my Lilac hens started laying again about 6 weeks ago. This caused me to incubate and hatch turkeys WAY later in the year than I really want! But I wanted more Lilac to work with. So far I have 5 hatched from that hen and 2 out of the Blue Red Bronze (which were bred to my second Lilac tom). In the meantime, Kevin suggested putting a Bourbon Red in with the Lilac, that cross produces 100% Blue Red Bronze. So I did that with just one BR hen. Her eggs have been almost 100% fertile and hatching has been almost 100%, too. So far I have 21 Blue Red Bronze hatched from that outcross.
And a few more left to hatch before I shut the incubator off. Do you think I overhatched?

This project better be worth it because the heat is killing me here this time of year, all the work...and the turkeys and chickens all eating a ton...and I need to build more pens for next year in order to complete this Lilac project, more expense and energy needed. I just had another organic feed order of 100 50-lb bags delivered today! Will have to wait for the sun to go down before even thinking about moving it all and stacking it indoors!

Sounds like quite the project!! I will have to let my friend know of your troubles with the Lilacs, my friend really wants those and I believe that is her reason for purchasing the Blue Red Bronze, as the Red Slate were sold out when we put in our order and Lilacs were unavailable this year as Porter's replenished their stock. Mr. Porter expressed to me that they were unable to meet supply and demand for the Lilacs so were going to hold them all back this year to build up their breeders. I had assumed that was just because Lilac was popular, now I wonder if it might have also been due to fertility issues they experienced themselves. On a side note, I thought I remembered, so I checked Porters to confirm, Red Slates bred to each other actually result in 3 possible color variations, Red Slate, Bronze, & Lilac. Were your Blue Red Bronze direct from Porters or hatched from birds you have? I assume you ruled out incubation issues? What rough luck!!

As far as overhatching, I think it's just one of those things. If you are going to do a project and really be invested it's an "all in" type deal. How much do you love your Lilacs? I am doing an Ameraucana project and 30 chicks was a bit maddening; we just culled 9 thank goodness. Consider also, Porter's may have Lilacs next year and they may be sturdier if they have also been taking Lilacs from other crosses to increase fertility; buying new Lilac poults may save you time and expense in the long run. They certainly have the room/feed/time to do the legwork & have access to more genetic diversity to work with than you do. For what you have already started, the Bourbon Red should bring some vigor for certain if she herself displays such good fertility. I had to look up the genetics with Porter's calculator to see what came of the Blue Red Bronze/Lilac combo. Just consider that with only 25% Lilac resulting from the BRB/Lilac combo you will be doing MUCH more hatching next year to get more Lilac. The end result may well be worth it as you should have more sturdy Lilac. I guess you just have to weigh the pros and cons and see if it is worth it. I know how you feel about the heat; it is generally 100 here daily. This week we have had beautiful mild weather in the 80's with a perfect breeze. I even had the chance to get cold outside today-forgot what that was like for a bit. My son is 8 (and off for the summer!!) so I can finally put him to work. On super hot days we work together to feed and water everyone as fast as possible in the AM and come back out when it has cooled at the end of the day. It's about time they kid became useful

 

[feedman77]

Thank you!! I am so excited. I am a turkey person hands down. I had them 2 hours and was ready to sell all my chickens already lol. 

Your welcome.

I'm a turkey person also. I have 15 poults out of my first hatching attempts. I've kept them all.

I've got 26 in a brooder that are going to a swap/sale sat. I miss them already. If I knew turkeys were as fun to have as they are wouldn't have a chicken.

 

[TattooedMama]

Your welcome.

I'm a turkey person also. I have 15 poults out of my first hatching attempts. I've kept them all.

I've got 26 in a brooder that are going to a swap/sale sat. I miss them already. If I knew turkeys were as fun to have as they are wouldn't have a chicken.

Right?! I started with Ameraucanas after keeping the ground clear of all birds for 6 months. Now I have a time-consuming Ameraucana Project and I am looking at my poults and ready to scrap the AMs completely, lol. Just because that would mean more room for turkeys

I have more than a few for now (cough, cough, 17) so I am hoping for some good breeding pens for Silver & Penciled & maybe a pair of BRB & Black. Looks like all my Blue Red Bronze may be males; but that's just a guess.

 

[desertmarcy]

Sounds like quite the project!! I will have to let my friend know of your troubles with the Lilacs, my friend really wants those and I believe that is her reason for purchasing the Blue Red Bronze, as the Red Slate were sold out when we put in our order and Lilacs were unavailable this year as Porter's replenished their stock. Mr. Porter expressed to me that they were unable to meet supply and demand for the Lilacs so were going to hold them all back this year to build up their breeders. I had assumed that was just because Lilac was popular, now I wonder if it might have also been due to fertility issues they experienced themselves. On a side note, I thought I remembered, so I checked Porters to confirm, Red Slates bred to each other actually result in 3 possible color variations, Red Slate, Bronze, & Lilac. Were your Blue Red Bronze direct from Porters or hatched from birds you have? I assume you ruled out incubation issues? What rough luck!!

As far as overhatching, I think it's just one of those things. If you are going to do a project and really be invested it's an "all in" type deal. How much do you love your Lilacs? I am doing an Ameraucana project and 30 chicks was a bit maddening; we just culled 9 thank goodness. Consider also, Porter's may have Lilacs next year and they may be sturdier if they have also been taking Lilacs from other crosses to increase fertility; buying new Lilac poults may save you time and expense in the long run. They certainly have the room/feed/time to do the legwork & have access to more genetic diversity to work with than you do. For what you have already started, the Bourbon Red should bring some vigor for certain if she herself displays such good fertility. I had to look up the genetics with Porter's calculator to see what came of the Blue Red Bronze/Lilac combo. Just consider that with only 25% Lilac resulting from the BRB/Lilac combo you will be doing MUCH more hatching next year to get more Lilac. The end result may well be worth it as you should have more sturdy Lilac. I guess you just have to weigh the pros and cons and see if it is worth it. I know how you feel about the heat; it is generally 100 here daily. This week we have had beautiful mild weather in the 80's with a perfect breeze. I even had the chance to get cold outside today-forgot what that was like for a bit. My son is 8 (and off for the summer!!) so I can finally put him to work. On super hot days we work together to feed and water everyone as fast as possible in the AM and come back out when it has cooled at the end of the day. It's about time they kid became useful

You are right, the Red Slate X Red Slate does produce some Bronze, I had forgotten that. Kevin told me he is doing the same thing he suggested I do, which is cross the Bronze into the Lilac. So he may be seeing some difficulties with them as well, or just wants to improve size and vigor. Yes, I could get more from him when they are available, but I want to do this project. My DP, who helps me with the birds but is not into them, has also suggested I just keep turkeys and forget about the chickens. All things considered, the chickens give me more problems and fits than the turkeys do. But I still need some eggs when the turkeys stop laying. I think I need to start cutting back, but I'm not sure how/where and admit I've been obsessed with this hobby. But it is getting really old being tied to it and not being able to go anywhere. I have had some problems with my Royal Palm bloodline and pretty much deciding to let them go. That will be one turkey variety down. They do tend to be popular, but like I said, I need to cut back somewhere and might as well do it with problem birds. I held back 12 Penciled Palm hens from last year and set up two breeding pens and this year had hardly anybody wanting them. Strange since I thought they'd be super popular? I sure like the way they look. Perhaps people just don't know what they are.

When I first got my Lilacs from Kevin, 2 years ago, Red Slate was the substitute and I got 3 of those. One of the 'Red Slate' hens was actually a Blue Red Bronze, sent by mistake (they look an awful lot alike at hatch and he said his uncle was helping him that summer). I did not realize that's what she was until I sent him photos of one of her hen offspring that I had held back thinking she was a Lilac. She is much lighter than her mother. I sent him photos asking, Lilac or Red Slate? and when he said neither, she is Blue Red Bronze, I said "What!?" Well we backtracked and I sent him photos of the mother and photos of the poults he had sent, and he was able to identify one of the poults as being a BRB, not a Red Slate, that I had originally been sent. So right now, other than the ones I'm hatching from the Lilac/Bourbon Red cross, I just have 2 hens, mother and daughter.

Your Ameraucana project is nothing compared to what I am raising/feeding here right now---over 300 chickens, over 100 turkeys. It is madness. I buy feed 100 bags at a time and since it is all organic, that is very expensive. I'm waiting for a break in the heat so I can do some butchering. One of my biggest stressers is what to do with all the culls. I just don't have a good outlet, no livestock auctions here, and local people just don't even want to pay what you've got in them in feed. $15-20 for a laying hen? Ridiculous, a bag of organic feed costs more than that. But most people are selling hatchery stock, not standard bred, and most people don't know the difference.

Here's a photo of my two BRB hens with my #2 Lilac tom. Daughter is the lighter one on the right.

 

[TattooedMama]

You are right, the Red Slate X Red Slate does produce some Bronze, I had forgotten that. Kevin told me he is doing the same thing he suggested I do, which is cross the Bronze into the Lilac. So he may be seeing some difficulties with them as well, or just wants to improve size and vigor. Yes, I could get more from him when they are available, but I want to do this project. My DP, who helps me with the birds but is not into them, has also suggested I just keep turkeys and forget about the chickens. All things considered, the chickens give me more problems and fits than the turkeys do. But I still need some eggs when the turkeys stop laying. I think I need to start cutting back, but I'm not sure how/where and admit I've been obsessed with this hobby. But it is getting really old being tied to it and not being able to go anywhere. I have had some problems with my Royal Palm bloodline and pretty much deciding to let them go. That will be one turkey variety down. They do tend to be popular, but like I said, I need to cut back somewhere and might as well do it with problem birds. I held back 12 Penciled Palm hens from last year and set up two breeding pens and this year had hardly anybody wanting them. Strange since I thought they'd be super popular? I sure like the way they look. Perhaps people just don't know what they are.

When I first got my Lilacs from Kevin, 2 years ago, Red Slate was the substitute and I got 3 of those. One of the 'Red Slate' hens was actually a Blue Red Bronze, sent by mistake (they look an awful lot alike at hatch and he said his uncle was helping him that summer). I did not realize that's what she was until I sent him photos of one of her hen offspring that I had held back thinking she was a Lilac. She is much lighter than her mother. I sent him photos asking, Lilac or Red Slate? and when he said neither, she is Blue Red Bronze, I said "What!?" Well we backtracked and I sent him photos of the mother and photos of the poults he had sent, and he was able to identify one of the poults as being a BRB, not a Red Slate, that I had originally been sent. So right now, other than the ones I'm hatching from the Lilac/Bourbon Red cross, I just have 2 hens, mother and daughter.

Your Ameraucana project is nothing compared to what I am raising/feeding here right now---over 300 chickens, over 100 turkeys. It is madness. I buy feed 100 bags at a time and since it is all organic, that is very expensive. I'm waiting for a break in the heat so I can do some butchering. One of my biggest stressers is what to do with all the culls. I just don't have a good outlet, no livestock auctions here, and local people just don't even want to pay what you've got in them in feed. $15-20 for a laying hen? Ridiculous, a bag of organic feed costs more than that. But most people are selling hatchery stock, not standard bred, and most people don't know the difference.

Here's a photo of my two BRB hens with my #2 Lilac tom. Daughter is the lighter one on the right.

Maybe it's just time to sit down and contemplate your farm focus, you can do it while you hide in the shade

If your heart is set on this project it may be time to decide where your heart isn't. Some things are a passion and those are the projects we want to hold on to. I doubt I will breed all 5 of the varieties I have now long term, but I now have the opportunity to raise each and see how I like them for myself. While we're not nearly on the scale you were, I just had to re-evaluate and make some decisions as well. I have to ensure that my focus is what makes me happy and that I am not becoming overwhelmed with feed bills or chores. I couldn't do as many birds as you have, it would kill me. Do you have a website? Some of the colors you have are on the rarer side. Maybe a website would help you reach a bigger/ more diverse audience; that depends on how you feel about shipping. If you advertise on here a lot, whether in auctions or ads that could help you place eggs, and chicks.

When you say you need eggs when the turkeys stop laying do you mean for your family, or do you sell the eggs?

 

[desertmarcy]

Maybe it's just time to sit down and contemplate your farm focus, you can do it while you hide in the shade

If your heart is set on this project it may be time to decide where your heart isn't. Some things are a passion and those are the projects we want to hold on to. I doubt I will breed all 5 of the varieties I have now long term, but I now have the opportunity to raise each and see how I like them for myself. While we're not nearly on the scale you were, I just had to re-evaluate and make some decisions as well. I have to ensure that my focus is what makes me happy and that I am not becoming overwhelmed with feed bills or chores. I couldn't do as many birds as you have, it would kill me. Do you have a website? Some of the colors you have are on the rarer side. Maybe a website would help you reach a bigger/ more diverse audience; that depends on how you feel about shipping. If you advertise on here a lot, whether in auctions or ads that could help you place eggs, and chicks.

When you say you need eggs when the turkeys stop laying do you mean for your family, or do you sell the eggs?

I agree, I do need to put a lot of thought into this. Because I do think the amount of work it is taking to maintain all this is not good for my health, physical and mental. I never intended to keep this many birds, just trying to make it to decision time and then do some massive culling. I literally don't have time for anything else. It is a good thing my partner is watering the fruit trees and garden. Yes I have a website: www.featheredreptilesfarm.weebly.com Unfortunately, BYC has what I consider a stupid policy in that they do not allow pre-sale ads except for 1 week in advance for hatching eggs, or I think they allow it if you subscribe as a platinum member. I have not been able to see how to subscribe in that way or how much it is since last I looked, it was not listed in the bookstore. I had to take down two ads for presale chicks and poults earlier this year when a moderator told me it wasn't allowed. I have been shipping both poults and chicks and actually enjoy helping people get started that way. I had to turn people away who were wanting Lilacs this year, probably because Porter wasn't offering them.

As for the eggs, I meant for us to eat although I do sell eating eggs. I just can't imagine buying eggs from a regular grocery store anymore! We both like fresh eggs, I eat them almost daily.

 

[TattooedMama]

I agree, I do need to put a lot of thought into this. Because I do think the amount of work it is taking to maintain all this is not good for my health, physical and mental. I never intended to keep this many birds, just trying to make it to decision time and then do some massive culling. I literally don't have time for anything else. It is a good thing my partner is watering the fruit trees and garden. Yes I have a website: www.featheredreptilesfarm.weebly.com Unfortunately, BYC has what I consider a stupid policy in that they do not allow pre-sale ads except for 1 week in advance for hatching eggs, or I think they allow it if you subscribe as a platinum member. I have not been able to see how to subscribe in that way or how much it is since last I looked, it was not listed in the bookstore. I had to take down two ads for presale chicks and poults earlier this year when a moderator told me it wasn't allowed. I have been shipping both poults and chicks and actually enjoy helping people get started that way. I had to turn people away who were wanting Lilacs this year, probably because Porter wasn't offering them.

As for the eggs, I meant for us to eat although I do sell eating eggs. I just can't imagine buying eggs from a regular grocery store anymore! We both like fresh eggs, I eat them almost daily.

Ahhh, I have been to your website before!! That is odd about getting a slap on the wrist because I see people who post ads and bump them every few weeks (some are YEARS old). Those people mostly have mile long wait lists, few have eggs or chicks on hand. What a crock. Maybe phrasing is important, as in not mentioning when they will be for sale but ask people to PM you for more details...? I don't know the rules on it but I will have to look into that for myself as well for future reference. I was asking about the eggs because you said you needed to keep some chickens for eggs so was trying to see how many out of your current number you needed to keep: a decent sized flock or still 100+, lol. Let me know if you plan to unload that gorgeous Black Am roo during your culling process I need blacks for my Chocolate AM project. I would be interested in Blue Red Bronze but I don't know how long you wait for them to grow before culling. Mine are all only a few days old but they all look like Toms, lol. Did some playing with Porter's turkey calculator & found I could put a BRB tom over a Silver Auburn hen and get 25% BRB, 25% Bronze, 25% Red Bronze, & 25% Red Slate. I am still amazed you had trouble selling your Pencileds, I think they are absolutely stunning. I hope I won't have that problem. I would love to keep in touch and follow your progress and project. You could still say I am new to turkeys and I am so excited to learn more. I adore my turkeys!!

 

[desertmarcy]

Ahhh, I have been to your website before!! That is odd about getting a slap on the wrist because I see people who post ads and bump them every few weeks (some are YEARS old). Those people mostly have mile long wait lists, few have eggs or chicks on hand. What a crock. Maybe phrasing is important, as in not mentioning when they will be for sale but ask people to PM you for more details...? I don't know the rules on it but I will have to look into that for myself as well for future reference. I was asking about the eggs because you said you needed to keep some chickens for eggs so was trying to see how many out of your current number you needed to keep: a decent sized flock or still 100+, lol. Let me know if you plan to unload that gorgeous Black Am roo during your culling process I need blacks for my Chocolate AM project. I would be interested in Blue Red Bronze but I don't know how long you wait for them to grow before culling. Mine are all only a few days old but they all look like Toms, lol. Did some playing with Porter's turkey calculator & found I could put a BRB tom over a Silver Auburn hen and get 25% BRB, 25% Bronze, 25% Red Bronze, & 25% Red Slate. I am still amazed you had trouble selling your Pencileds, I think they are absolutely stunning. I hope I won't have that problem. I would love to keep in touch and follow your progress and project. You could still say I am new to turkeys and I am so excited to learn more. I adore my turkeys!!

I don't know about the ads, I don't really look at them much. Sales has never been my "thing". It is unfortunate I feel like I have to sell birds to help pay for this hobby as I guess I'd rather not have to deal with the flaky public, but it is just the two of us and we can't eat as much meat as I produce in my quest for good show birds! I'm sure a lot of it is marketing and constant posting with photos and promotion of one's own birds, here and on FB, but that takes a lot of time. I guess you'd say I'm one of those types that just plugs away on my own without a lot of fanfare.

I checked the calculator on that cross you mentioned. The toms will all be split for chocolate and narragansett, only the hens will be pure. Since choc and narri are both sexlinked genes. The narri gene causes a lightening of the colors. Are you on Porter's FB turkey color genetics group?

I did a lot of figuring today on the calculator as well, looking to see how I can best utilize the Blue Red Bronze I'm hatching from the outcross next year. The best I can come up with is to just keep the hens and breed to the original Red Slate tom I kept from my Porter poult order in 2013. This tom would be somewhat related to my Lilacs and I don't really know if introduction of the unrelated Bourbon Red will be enough if the problems I'm seeing are due to too much inbreeding. I like my Red Slate tom but have not used him for breeding, he has been a "spare, just in case" tom. So he is not proven yet. I could also breed them to my other Lilac tom, not sure which would be less inbred. I do think I hatched too many Blue Red Bronze poults for my own good so if you are interested in any, they can be shipped best at 3-4 weeks old, according to Kevin. Feel free to email me through my website if you want to chat off BYC.

 

[TattooedMama]

I don't know about the ads, I don't really look at them much. Sales has never been my "thing". It is unfortunate I feel like I have to sell birds to help pay for this hobby as I guess I'd rather not have to deal with the flaky public, but it is just the two of us and we can't eat as much meat as I produce in my quest for good show birds! I'm sure a lot of it is marketing and constant posting with photos and promotion of one's own birds, here and on FB, but that takes a lot of time. I guess you'd say I'm one of those types that just plugs away on my own without a lot of fanfare.

I checked the calculator on that cross you mentioned. The toms will all be split for chocolate and narragansett, only the hens will be pure. Since choc and narri are both sexlinked genes. The narri gene causes a lightening of the colors. Are you on Porter's FB turkey color genetics group?

I did a lot of figuring today on the calculator as well, looking to see how I can best utilize the Blue Red Bronze I'm hatching from the outcross next year. The best I can come up with is to just keep the hens and breed to the original Red Slate tom I kept from my Porter poult order in 2013. This tom would be somewhat related to my Lilacs and I don't really know if introduction of the unrelated Bourbon Red will be enough if the problems I'm seeing are due to too much inbreeding. I like my Red Slate tom but have not used him for breeding, he has been a "spare, just in case" tom. So he is not proven yet. I could also breed them to my other Lilac tom, not sure which would be less inbred. I do think I hatched too many Blue Red Bronze poults for my own good so if you are interested in any, they can be shipped best at 3-4 weeks old, according to Kevin. Feel free to email me through my website if you want to chat off BYC.

No I am not a part of that group, I didn't see it when I tried to look it up either but I would love to join. I have a lot to learn about the turkey genetics. I had seen some crosses where the result would be "semi" or "light" but not on this one so I assumed they would each be pure. I will send you an email