Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed

[fowlman01]

Some of the information that is published is accurate and a lot of it is not. My father told me 70 years ago to not believe everything I read and he was right on. I'm sorry but anyone who believes everything they read about poultry is naive. The older it is the more suspicious I am. Bad information was prevalent in the old days too and they also had their share of know it all that were prolific writers. I believe people like Eissens and Piet who can actually put good birds together. They may have a different Standard, but they could breed to any Standard because they actually know birds. It is one thing to be an Internet breeder and yet another to know how to actually breed good birds. I can't tell you how many know it all Crappy breeders I have seen in my 50 years of doing this. The know it all can never make good birds. FYI no one knows all there is about chickens, so never believe anyone who claims to be an expert.

Walt

 

[Redcap]

I know, that Hagedoorn was a great genecist who made publications about his breeding projects. He worked together with fancy breeder world wide and they profit of his networks and genetic knowledge for breed improvements.
There are many examples in poultry history, where fancy breeder made "undercover" crossings, or told fairy tales about the "survival" of a breed, which was actually a recreation of a extinct breed (eg. Pavlova). These facts were obviously (not true), but they never admit it. Later it comes out, that rumours are true, nonetheless. Disappointed friends are the best leaks.
I know, that I can rather trust scientific publications - fancy breeder tend to keep their breeding "secrets" (especially backcrossing projects) under cover. That's not my way.

 

[sherpagirl]

It is not necessary to cross Barnevelders with another breed in order to darken the eggs. I have been raising Barnevelders for 5 years and have succeeded in darkening the egg color by simply selecting roosters that hatch out of the darkest eggs. Now that I have more hens that lay dark eggs I can also select the hens that lay the darkest eggs. It's a slow process, but based on my personal experience only, it does work.

 

[fowlman01]

It is not necessary to cross Barnevelders with another breed in order to darken the eggs. I have been raising Barnevelders for 5 years and have succeeded in darkening the egg color by simply selecting roosters that hatch out of the darkest eggs. Now that I have more hens that lay dark eggs I can also select the hens that lay the darkest eggs. It's a slow process, but based on my personal experience only, it does work.

Yes, it does and you won't have the extra problems associated with crossing to a Marans..In particular the feathers on the legs and feet.


Walt

 

[Redcap]

You know, that Marans and Barnevelder have almost the same ancestors?
The creation of breeds is just selection for or against traits.
Many breeds which base on the same ancestors, has today a totally different shape.
On the other side there are breeds with distinct ancestors and they look almost like twins.
It's just the art of selection.
Early generations of Barnevelder had feather shanks aswell. Well, no surprise with at least 4 feather shanked ancestors, only the local barnyard fowl, the leghorn, the rhode Island, Indian Games etc. had clean legs
Of course I use Marans with slight feathered shanks. I will use black red for dark laced and jubilee and black silver for the silver double laced.
I don't understand why I don't shall breed back lost traits, which are lost due to headless crossing with white layer by trophy hunters.
You should rather condemn these guys, they ruined a trait for which the breed was famous for.
What would You think about exhibtition Marans which lays cream eggs?
I guess noone would be curious to catch hatching eggs from such a strain. Right?
But tropy addicted exhibition Marans breeder will do a good job to provide them in some decades.

 

[fowlman01]

I'm very aware of how breeds came about. The Marans here in the US are a mess and most are not pure Marans. The reason? Internet experts have been crossing them to get darker eggs. The trophy chasers are the only ones who have the skills to improve the breed. Unfortunately the Marans, Wellies and Barnies don't have many of these skilled breeders working on them to make the necessary improvements.

Have you posted any pictures of your birds Redcap?

Walt

 

[Redcap]

Which breed do You want to see?

I will try to make pictures at the weekend.
The silver double laced large fowl are still in development (F4), therefore I have to fight still with autosomal red.
That's another reason to cross them with black silver, to remove (ar) by this way faster.
Mr. Simmelink told me they have still the same problem, although they breed some years longer.
My (Millward) strain is bantam based, as far as I know Simmelink and Tensen have created their strain in analogy to the bantam with large silver pencilled Wyandottes (Hesterman, Levende Have, April 2013, page 7).

 

[fowlman01]

Pictures of something that you are proud of would be great. I fully understand that pictures don't really represent the bird like real life. When I was in Canada in October I handled some of Piet's birds and they are magnificent. I always appreciate seeing good birds.

Walt

 

[Redcap]

That are my Ixworths, which I originally wanted to use for Jubilee Barnevelder due their dominant white (I) plumage. Sometimes offspring show Jubilee pattern.
I love them.

 

[pysankigirl]

I usually can keep myself looking at the polite side of things but I have to say, Redcap, that your tone and bull-in-a-chinashop mannerisms have soured this thread considerabley. I am not a breeder, I am an owner. I have no dog in this fight except love of the breed. and yet I am finding myself offended for the people you are talking to and about.

My opinion: many of the early Barnevelder breeders in this country had alot to overcome. Barnevelders turned out to be highly susceptable to several of the chicken diseases that they found here and they had to first overcome that issue. Many gave up the breed entirely when their flocks were decimated by Mareks. From what I have seen, the ones we now have left have a better resisitance to it. Perhaps their eggs are not quite as dark, but they will live to produce them. And they are gorgeous birds that are truely a joy to own. My birds are excellent layers and their eggs are a nice medium brown. breeding has to take into account EVERYTHING. and that said, I think they have done well considering.

My opinion again: if you want to cross to marans...feel free. they are your chickens. but you cant fault people for not getting excited about them if they don't look like barnevelders. if you want to create a bird you call a jubillee barnvelder, again. they are your birds. but when it comes down to it, what people want in a barnvelder after generations, it is the double laced colortype. It is what people identify the most about them and what makes them truely special in a dizzying array of chicken breeds


It is really easy to throw stones at someone who has tried.
But do you really have the right if you haven't done better yourself?

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