Celadon questions and integration questions!

[kurby22]

Just a couple of quick questions, more out of curiosity than anything. I have noticed that my celadon babies are growing at a much slower rate than my non-Celadon quail did. They eat less, drink less, and are smaller. I'm wondering if this is going to make it hard to integrate them with my non-Celadons? Should I wait longer to integrate them to ensure they are as big as they're going to get? They're only 3 weeks old, but mostly feathered...they're just really small!

My other question is more of a general behavioral question. I noticed that two of my babies lay together in the brooder, and one lays by itself...and it's always the same one that is alone. Is this a sign that two are of the same gender and one is not? Or is it a sign that two have paired up and one is the "third wheel"? The one that sleeps alone is also the smallest and whitest Celadon. I noticed too, that in my non-Celadon quail, the three Falb fees are always together, the two Grau fees are always together and the Rosetta and Silver sort of wander around like interlopers. I find it rather fascinating how they seem to have segregated themselves naturally. There is definitely one male Falb fee, but the other two are looking like hens. They aren't old enough to check the gender of any of the others...but at night they all snuggle together as a big pile of quail.

Anyway, I'd really like to put them all in the same quail coop if it's possible, but I really don't want the Celadons to be picked on...I bought some of the apple cider vinegar for a squirt bottle...are there any other suggestions for easy integration? The coop is two levels, so I thought I could spray everyone so it masks smells, then add the Celadons to one level while the others are all down on the bottom level...would this cause issues?

Thanks! (added a picture of the snuggle pile cuz they're cute!)

 

[FloorCandy]

Yeah, I figured they might be a bit smaller since they were such tiny babies...but it's a really significant difference! I was hoping I might see some growth in the next week or so but I'm not real sure it's going to happen! Much to my husband's dismay, I may just need more quail to improve their sizes

These hatched the same day, they are 2 days old. The small tux is from my original celadons, the big silver Egyptian thing is from crossing my original celadons to the Myshire snowies, then those celadon carriers back to my original celadons. As you can see, the size has remained significantly larger, even after 2 generations of outcrossing to smaller birds.

 

[ChanP]

This is probably too late, but my celadon females are fully grown and are still smaller then my Japanese and Italian quail, however they had no trouble fitting in even though there was a big size difference

 

[Nabiki]

I would wait until your celadons are as big as they're going to get before integrating them. If you want to breed celadons, you don't want to integrate them, but it does sound like it's time to introduce some new celadon genes to your covey.

I don't believe the separation has anything to do with gender. I have noticed that quail do seem to prefer their own colour type, but they get along with other colours better if they are raised with them.

 

[FloorCandy]

Thanks Nabiki, that was my gut instinct too. The brooder they're in is plenty big enough to wait for a couple more weeks or longer if need be--and if they end up staying this much smaller I may just get another small outdoor hutch for them. I got these Celadon from a lady here in Sacramento, so I might try buying a couple three more from somewhere else in the future to help with their sizes for any future babies. I had a fourth that just quit growing at 2 weeks and passed away after two days of listlessness These three Celadons are really different in temperament too, they are calmer and less panicky. I worry they are too gentle for the non-Celadon crew. The non-Celadon crew haven't shown any signs yet of aggression or issues amongst each other, but they're only 4.5 weeks old.

Most of my celadons are smaller than my nons. My original celadons are standard, but the snowies I got from Myshire are more jumbo sized. This is common because most big hatcheries haven’t raised celadons up to jumbo yet. My main male from my celadons is huge though, and his babies are often huge, where as the celadons crossed to snowie males tend to be smaller than their moms are, but non celadons crossed to my big celadon Tiger are generally very large. The jumbos grow faster because they are ready in the same time frame so they just have more growing to do in the same amount of time.

I try to make certain there are a couple scarlets in each hatch, because I have found birds that didn’t grow up with reds, don’t always accept them later, and vice versa. It’s common for birds to be racist and only like ones who look like them.

 

[kurby22]

Yeah, I was actually thinking of asking you (@Nabiki) about your Celadons. I also very much love the Pansy fee color you have. Perhaps we can chat over PM about your hatching eggs?

 

[kurby22]

Most of my celadons are smaller than my nons. My original celadons are standard, but the snowies I got from Myshire are more jumbo sized. This is common because most big hatcheries haven’t raised celadons up to jumbo yet. My main male from my celadons is huge though, and his babies are often huge, where as the celadons crossed to snowie males tend to be smaller than their moms are, but non celadons crossed to my big celadon Tiger are generally very large. The jumbos grow faster because they are ready in the same time frame so they just have more growing to do in the same amount of time.

I try to make certain there are a couple scarlets in each hatch, because I have found birds that didn’t grow up with reds, don’t always accept them later, and vice versa. It’s common for birds to be racist and only like ones who look like them.

Yeah, I figured they might be a bit smaller since they were such tiny babies...but it's a really significant difference! I was hoping I might see some growth in the next week or so but I'm not real sure it's going to happen! Much to my husband's dismay, I may just need more quail to improve their sizes

 

[kurby22]

These hatched the same day, they are 2 days old. The small tux is from my original celadons, the big silver Egyptian thing is from crossing my original celadons to the Myshire snowies, then those celadon carriers back to my original celadons. As you can see, the size has remained significantly larger, even after 2 generations of outcrossing to smaller birds.
View attachment 2674690View attachment 2674691

They are definitely notably larger! That is good to see! I don't mind the smaller ones since they're mainly for eggs and pets...but I don't want them to be sickly or too inbred either! Love those cute little fluffy babies!

 

[ChanP]

Sorry you've had so much trouble. I hand-raising the two Celadon females and they were very trusting and actually held their own quite well! How many males and females have you got together overall?

 

[FloorCandy]

I have 7 males and 2 hens...my celadon males seem to be getting along better now that they are with another male and a Falb fee hen...so I am thinking I might be able to reintegrate the celadon hen with them...but I am so afraid she will get beat up again. She is SOO gun shy now, the poor thing. I am working on finding my males a new place to live...I plan to keep the celadon males if they behave, and my silver coturnix male...but the other 4 males are being evicted. The Grau Fees are AWFUL to everyone...I tried the apple cider vinegar spray to mask scents and help them reset...but it did NOT work. UGH.

If your ratio is not right, no time out, ACV, or intro time will help. I’m not sure if I’m understanding the numbers correctly though,

1. how many total quail do you have, and what are the genders

2. How many are you trying to integrate together, and what are the genders

3. what size is the space you are trying to integrate them into

I’m not sure if it was that you are trying to integrate 7 males and 2 females into a larger group, or are you trying to keep 7 males and 2 females together in total? If that’s the case, you need to put 2 females and 1 male together and put the rest of the males somewhere else until you sell them, eat them, or get many more hens. Your males can hurt or kill each other and the hens, and giving them bad experiences will make them harder to integrate into a larger group later. Perhaps for now you can put the 2 hens alone in the brooder and the males together in the larger space?