The quote is 'very pale butter' and I am not sure why one judge's quote is now a mantra and a decision point that we all must somehow align with. I have received other quotes from another judge that belies that quote but each to their own.
If one disagrees with another's determination of what cream is or any other aspect of anything at all it does not mean a lack of open mindedness, just a lack of support for the opinion being put forth and yes, I intend to refute the idea that the gold birds are the standard we should be aiming for in regards to the Standard and APA acceptance. If it comes across as instigating or close minded then.... so be it. I do not sell them as Legbars or for breeding as Legbars. I have at times not sold the gold pullets simply to not have them perpetuated. I am in full agreement that folks can indeed breed for whatever color they like. But to achieve a standard it's not what you like but what the genotype and phenotype should be and in that there is disagreement. I fully understand the point of view being put forth and all it's various support mechanisms. Disagreement with an idea is not a corner as I don't feel painted in anywhere (I'm an artist so I'd imagine I could tell if I was LOL) just another point of view that seeks not to perpetuate the point of view it is in opposition with... sometimes folks just disagree.. and I just disagree with what is being said. I think this will lead to only more confusion going forward, especially when the Rees birds hit the market and what could be an influx of very pale or simply cream colored birds. These birds may indeed become the 'norm' just as the initial golden ones were. In my area, folks do not pay a lot for chickens and the cream colored birds are already at a cost bracket higher than the gold ones. I just simply cannot afford over time to breed something that is loosing demand due to what the public is learning as the correct standard for this breed. I am getting more and more questions on color when folks ask about the birds and the gold ones they really don't want to pay much for and pretty much all my requests are for the cream birds. For me it's just a matter of being true to the breed and good business practice. I don't need to make a killing but I have to keep my husband happy and not have too much of a deficit so I have to breed the best bird I can forward. We can all breed to what ever we choose but that will not help us get APA if we have birds that are all over the place, and they cannot all be 'pure bred' if they are missing the correct genetic make up. I don't have many answers for a lot of questions I have regarding this breed and am seeking to find them out as I breed forward through a lot of research and reading and talking with other breeders of the breed or folks that breed chickens but mostly from just breeding and observing and taking note on what I see. I believe in the act of breeding being the determinative factor in what I believe and think possible not the theory of breeding which happens a lot here.
HaplessRunner - I agree, Rooster #1 is a handsome boy.
If one disagrees with another's determination of what cream is or any other aspect of anything at all it does not mean a lack of open mindedness, just a lack of support for the opinion being put forth and yes, I intend to refute the idea that the gold birds are the standard we should be aiming for in regards to the Standard and APA acceptance. If it comes across as instigating or close minded then.... so be it. I do not sell them as Legbars or for breeding as Legbars. I have at times not sold the gold pullets simply to not have them perpetuated. I am in full agreement that folks can indeed breed for whatever color they like. But to achieve a standard it's not what you like but what the genotype and phenotype should be and in that there is disagreement. I fully understand the point of view being put forth and all it's various support mechanisms. Disagreement with an idea is not a corner as I don't feel painted in anywhere (I'm an artist so I'd imagine I could tell if I was LOL) just another point of view that seeks not to perpetuate the point of view it is in opposition with... sometimes folks just disagree.. and I just disagree with what is being said. I think this will lead to only more confusion going forward, especially when the Rees birds hit the market and what could be an influx of very pale or simply cream colored birds. These birds may indeed become the 'norm' just as the initial golden ones were. In my area, folks do not pay a lot for chickens and the cream colored birds are already at a cost bracket higher than the gold ones. I just simply cannot afford over time to breed something that is loosing demand due to what the public is learning as the correct standard for this breed. I am getting more and more questions on color when folks ask about the birds and the gold ones they really don't want to pay much for and pretty much all my requests are for the cream birds. For me it's just a matter of being true to the breed and good business practice. I don't need to make a killing but I have to keep my husband happy and not have too much of a deficit so I have to breed the best bird I can forward. We can all breed to what ever we choose but that will not help us get APA if we have birds that are all over the place, and they cannot all be 'pure bred' if they are missing the correct genetic make up. I don't have many answers for a lot of questions I have regarding this breed and am seeking to find them out as I breed forward through a lot of research and reading and talking with other breeders of the breed or folks that breed chickens but mostly from just breeding and observing and taking note on what I see. I believe in the act of breeding being the determinative factor in what I believe and think possible not the theory of breeding which happens a lot here.
HaplessRunner - I agree, Rooster #1 is a handsome boy.
