Dealing with MG- Opinions PLEASE

[freestargirl]

I've had a self-sustaining flock for several years with a strict no bird in/no bird out rule. We've dealt with some health issues over the years, but nothing like this. My flock seems to be pretty hearty.

Earlier in the summer, a snake got all of our chicks that we'd just hatched. In a moment of panic, I bought 3 20 wk old pullets from a NPIP certified farm. My friend bought 3 also. She integrated after 3 wks., 1 of her *new* ones got sick- lethargic, had what she described as pasty butt and died within 48 hrs of symptom onset. I still hadn't integrated mine yet, but mine didn't have those symptoms so I integrated mine. Her other 2 got lethargic, so they culled them.

My birds seemed to be fine, until 8 days after integration. Mine are having different symptoms. Some of my older birds started having "bubbly discharge" in their eyes Thursday night. I haven't done testing, but based on symptoms, I am sure we are dealing with mycoplasma gallisepticum. I began treating with oxytetracycline in their water, yesterday, and 3 hens were then having nasal discharge- 1 being one of the young new ones.

These are my 2 options, right now.

1) I can still save the flock. I have 2 broody hens, 1 with 3 babies, and 1 on 4 eggs that are supposed to hatch in 4 days, and they have never been in contact with the new hens. I can cull the rest of my flock and be MG free moving forward with two 3 yr old hens and their offspring. (My hubby isn't thrilled with this idea, not being convinced that they haven't accidentally been exposed, which I have read is thru shared waterers, exposure to infected nasal secretions, etc) We ofcourse feed and water the young first, and they are up in boxes, so we aren't walking in their area with shoes. We can clean out the coop and let the chicken run 'rest' for awhile. If I am going to cull and practically start over, I'd rather do it now than later.

2) Deal with the MG- treating when symptoms flair up during times of stress, have reduced food efficiency, egg production & egg viability. But will always have it. Death rates are low, but sickness is high. I have read a few places that some birds can build up a tolerance to it. There is the possibility that some of my birds may never have symptoms, but it will always be present.


What are your thoughts?

 

[WyandotteIndeed]

Sadly, if a bird with MG had access to your flock, even if none of your birds have symptoms or appear sick, they are all carriers now. This is a classic example of why the disease is so common. Vet statistics report that between 75 and 90 percent of ALL flocks in America carry MG, yet most people have no idea. You would have no clue that your birds were infected until the flock encountered some stress, like the introduction of new birds, molt, extreme temps, etc, and even then, if you have otherwise healthy, vigorous birds with quality immune systems, they are more than able to keep most bacteria in check.
I find it particularly sad that so many people try to stigmatize and demonize others who find out they sold infected birds, when the reality of the situation is that 8-9 out of 10 birds in the country are probably carrying and their people are simply ignorant of it.
I am beginning to feel the more I read about people and their experiences with these diseases in their small flocks, that the best way to go for small breeders is to stop focusing so hard on feather patterns and recessive genes, but put some serious emphasis on hardiness and vigor so that more birds have good immune systems and are able to beat disease. Anyhow... just a thought.

 

[Granny Hatchet]

I also have a suspected crd flock. I did cull most of the flock and restarted. Like you I thought the babies were never exposed. I was wrong. after restarting the flock and building up a nice one it was back. crd is very common as it can , in my case, be caught by the grass I hand pulled for them. (I believe). any way new flock is infected. I have chose to treat . Denaguard mixed with molasses is very effective. It was one a month but after 3 months Its on a as needed basis. one every 3 or so months. I prefer this method . I would recommend if your going to get rid of some , do them all. I am very sorry for your problems and wish you the best.. Please note, More people have this then told. and next time you bring new in, make sure you have a few extra birds . instead of waiting to see if the new ones get sick, add one of yours to the new ones. If yours gets sick then destroy them.

 

[dawg53]

I agree that birds should be tested.
Infectious Bronchitis (IB) is a virus. Antibiotics such as doxycycline and baytril are ineffective against viral diseases. However birds infected with IB can have bacterial infections in conjunction with IB such as ecoli and mycoplasma gallisepticum (MG.) The doxycycline and baytril will treat both ecoli and MG symptoms, but not cure the MG.
Granny Hatchet is SPOT ON with her analysis with MG.

 

[freestargirl]

Yes, I plan on calling the Extension office first thing in the morning- I am in a pretty small town and actually saw the director today at the grocery store and almost said something to him then. We don't have a poultry agent at the moment, but I'm gonna start the ball rolling tomorrow to getting testing done.
Everyone local and everything I read online said to treat with oxytetracycline in the water, and that it is effective as a broad spectrum abx on MG, as the label states. So far, the ones showing symptoms are still showing symptoms, after 48 hours on it.

So I'm assuming that it's viral, likely not IB since the eggs appearance hasn't been effected. I gave them lots of fresh herbs from the garden that have anti-viral & anti-microbial properties for good measure. All but one of them seems to be eating and drinking, and ofcourse it's my favorite hen. I tried to force feed her, but that didn't work out well. She's making deep mucusy noises.

It's not a big number of birds- 13 of them, and I've been so careful about not bringing other birds in, and only wearing my 'chicken boots' here and not letting other people go into the chickens run or coop. Hindsight is 20/20. I wish I'd not gotten those other birds, cuz it didn't start til they got here, and the stress of new birds likely set it off, even if it was already here. :-(

 

[dawg53]

If you have one not eating and drinking I would 100% try a shot of Tylan 50 or 200...Sq or oral. If it's MG you will know by the next morning. It was THAT effective on my chickens

Tylan results varies depending on the severity of the MG strain. There should be some improvement by the third or fourth day if given orally, 24-72 hours for injecting tylan 50....depending on the strain. Denagard would be a better choice if it's a mycoplasma disease which I suspect it is. Organics will not treat MG.
Here's a link regarding tylan injectables:
http://ultimatefowl.com/wiki/index.php?title=Tylan

 

[Folly's place]

You don't actually have a diagnosis; get testing done, and then if you cull, do a complete bird removal, clean, and wait four weeks before bringing in new birds. There's no way you have completely isolated everything on farm or home conditions, and the eggs carry it through generations. Mary

 

[chickengr]

I've had a self-sustaining flock for several years with a strict no bird in/no bird out rule. We've dealt with some health issues over the years, but nothing like this. My flock seems to be pretty hearty.

Earlier in the summer, a snake got all of our chicks that we'd just hatched. In a moment of panic, I bought 3 20 wk old pullets from a NPIP certified farm. My friend bought 3 also. She integrated after 3 wks., 1 of her *new* ones got sick- lethargic, had what she described as pasty butt and died within 48 hrs of symptom onset. I still hadn't integrated mine yet, but mine didn't have those symptoms so I integrated mine. Her other 2 got lethargic, so they culled them.

My birds seemed to be fine, until 8 days after integration. Mine are having different symptoms. Some of my older birds started having "bubbly discharge" in their eyes Thursday night. I haven't done testing, but based on symptoms, I am sure we are dealing with mycoplasma gallisepticum. I began treating with oxytetracycline in their water, yesterday, and 3 hens were then having nasal discharge- 1 being one of the young new ones.

These are my 2 options, right now.

1) I can still save the flock. I have 2 broody hens, 1 with 3 babies, and 1 on 4 eggs that are supposed to hatch in 4 days, and they have never been in contact with the new hens. I can cull the rest of my flock and be MG free moving forward with two 3 yr old hens and their offspring. (My hubby isn't thrilled with this idea, not being convinced that they haven't accidentally been exposed, which I have read is thru shared waterers, exposure to infected nasal secretions, etc) We ofcourse feed and water the young first, and they are up in boxes, so we aren't walking in their area with shoes. We can clean out the coop and let the chicken run 'rest' for awhile. If I am going to cull and practically start over, I'd rather do it now than later.

2) Deal with the MG- treating when symptoms flair up during times of stress, have reduced food efficiency, egg production & egg viability. But will always have it. Death rates are low, but sickness is high. I have read a few places that some birds can build up a tolerance to it. There is the possibility that some of my birds may never have symptoms, but it will always be present.


What are your thoughts?

if you don't test your birds you cannot know if they have MG. when my birds were sick the first thing my wet said it was MG - for the symptoms. but when he did a blood test it was infestious bronchitis. I treated them with doxycycline for 40 days and they got well. only my cockerel needed 2 injections of bytril besides doxycycline and he got well too.

I have 2-3 pullets that sneeze from time to time but no other symptoms and no other birds have any problem. it is hot and dry here so it might be just dust in their nostrils.

bubbly discharge from their eyes can be from some allergies as well. nasal discharge can be from the stress as well. don't diagnose based on symptoms only. if you give them antibiotics and the symptoms persist then it might be something more serious.

I had the best results with baytril.

test your birds before taking any decisions! good luck!

 

[chickengr]

I agree that birds should be tested.
Infectious Bronchitis (IB) is a virus. Antibiotics such as doxycycline and baytril are ineffective against viral diseases. However birds infected with IB can have bacterial infections in conjunction with IB such as ecoli and mycoplasma gallisepticum (MG.) The doxycycline and baytril will treat both ecoli and MG symptoms, but not cure the MG.
Granny Hatchet is SPOT ON with her analysis with MG.

yes, I treated them with antibiotics for the secondary infections. for the viral part I gave them acv, garlic, oregano, thyme, etc.

 

[freestargirl]

Thanks so far everyone! We're still not sure what we're going to do. I'm calling tomorrow about testing so we know what it is. This morning, I had 4 hens that didn't want to come out of the coop when I let them out into the run. Some had visible discharge and some didn't. One of the roosters was making rattly, growling/mucusy noises. The other rooster, who has a large comb is showing cyanosis on his comb. :-( This was well over 36 hrs on oxytetracycline and no real improvement, so I am strongly suspecting something viral at this point. I'm not aware of any avian vets in the area, so I'm gonna call around tomorrow for that too. It's just too coincidental that it started 8 days after introducing the 3 new hens that had no symptoms and that my friend who bought hens from the same farm had symptoms but they were different.

I know that many illnesses can show no symptoms ever. Poop looked normal, and so far the only one who shows signs of diarrhea is an older hen who has it occasionally and slows down for a day or two but then perks back up. And she is not one of the ones with any respiratory symptoms.

I am giving them fresh oregano, and am going to dig up some garlic for them when I get done here.

I am also beginning to think that its something in our coop or run. At first I suspected the water source- we have gutters and rainbarrel on the coop, that my hubby put in over the winter while I was pregnant and complained about carrying 5 gallon buckets of water down there when it was cold. We have a rooster that my cousin gave just for meat several weeks ago. He is in quarantine, as we were never intending to integrate him at all, just hadn't gotten around to processing him. The new hens were housed next to him- sheet of plywood between them. After we integrated the new hens, I took their almost full waterer and gave to the rooster and he has zero symptoms. He has also been watered out of the rain barrel. There have never been chickens or livestock of any sort on the land here, unless it was like 100 years ago. We are treating him as well.

We have had a pretty humid summer, but then it go hot hot and dry weather.The day I noticed the first symptoms, it rained, hard and rained the next 2 days. So I'm also considering that it could be fungal or the previous dry conditions. I know chickens have very sensitive respiratory systems, it just strikes me as really odd that we have it now.

As far as the ones I referred to that haven't been exposed- if it's something that the meat rooster or new hens brought in, one is in a plywood brooder on our carport, and the other in a pet carrier also on our carport. They were removed from the main flock before the new birds were integrated. I realize that if it is something that was already here, then they have been exposed and are carriers.
Just can't make an educated decision until we have testing done.