Deworming thoughts/poll

[Dukes7779]

I have been reading on regular deworming schedules and have gotten mixed opinions. Some say just do fecals regularly, some say just deworm regularly. This from BYC folks as well as Vets. Looking for pros/cons of each as well as reasons/literature supporting your views. Please vote too.

Thanks!

 

[Chicka_deee]

I just put diatomaceous earth In with their food, works great!

 

[cottagecheese]

I'm not too worried about worms because I try to prevent them by all means possible - diet, cleanliness, keeping stress levels low. What did people do before modern dewormers were invented? How did chickens make it through the ages without dewormers, if they were so fragile and easily overwhelmed by worms, who would have bothered keeping them? I'm not in sales, but even I know that fear is a good (the best?) tactic of making people buy something. What if the fear of worms is a received idea (from people who make a living manufacturing dewormers)? I don't deworm regularly because I don't want superworms, don't want to waste the eggs and don't want side effects. Fenbendazole seems problematic according to http://www.poultrydvm.com/drugs/fenbendazole

But, what if one day will be the day when the worms will have successfully established residence in my chickens, what then? Got something up my sleeve : homeopathic dewormer = nontoxic, safe, effective, no egg withdrawal aaaand .....does anyone like cheap? Here is an introduction to Cina, warning, the cringe factor is high in the beginning because a speaking dog makes an appearance. Still, better a speaking dog than the cold shiver up the spine from poultrydvm/fenbendazole " toxicity has been reported, particularly in birds."

https://joettecalabrese.com/blog/what-you-cows-and-worms-have-in-common-cina/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FPC6OS/?tag=backy-20
Homeopathic pills should never be touched:
http://www.thehomeopathiccoach.com/homeopathic-medicine-taking-storing-homeopathic-medicines/

 

[dawg53]

I'm not too worried about worms because I try to prevent them by all means possible - diet, cleanliness, keeping stress levels low. What did people do before modern dewormers were invented? How did chickens make it through the ages without dewormers, if they were so fragile and easily overwhelmed by worms, who would have bothered keeping them? I'm not in sales, but even I know that fear is a good (the best?) tactic of making people buy something. What if the fear of worms is a received idea (from people who make a living manufacturing dewormers)? I don't deworm regularly because I don't want superworms, don't want to waste the eggs and don't want side effects. Fenbendazole seems problematic according to http://www.poultrydvm.com/drugs/fenbendazole

But, what if one day will be the day when the worms will have successfully established residence in my chickens, what then? Got something up my sleeve : homeopathic dewormer = nontoxic, safe, effective, no egg withdrawal aaaand .....does anyone like cheap? Here is an introduction to Cina, warning, the cringe factor is high in the beginning because a speaking dog makes an appearance. Still, better a speaking dog than the cold shiver up the spine from poultrydvm/fenbendazole " toxicity has been reported, particularly in birds."

https://joettecalabrese.com/blog/what-you-cows-and-worms-have-in-common-cina/
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FPC6OS/?tag=backy-20
Ho?meopathic pills should never be touched:
http://www.thehomeopathiccoach.com/homeopathic-medicine-taking-storing-homeopathic-medicines/

How did chickens make it through the ages? Simple; they lived short lives and produced many eggs. Kinda like humans, eh?

Worming depends on your soil conditions/environment. If you live in an area where the soil is warm, moist or wet most of the time, it's worm soup and you'll need to worm frequently. Cool or cold soil, desertlike or rocky mountainous soil, worm infrequently. I dont care what anyone says, nematodes are in the soil everywhere.
Homeopathic remedies are questionable at best. You need to know the exact dose, contraindications with other medicines and/or feeds/products, withdrawal times for consumption of eggs and meat etc...
If you or your child had worms, you'd be running to the ER.

 

[cottagecheese]

What about these guys?


Spring chickens, they are NOT. But, actually, I'm not disputing the fact that people lived shorter lives in the past. The question is - what got them? Did the worms get them while still alive? How do you know for sure? After they died though, the worms got them guaranteed.

@dawg53, there's no withdrawal time for eggs, you're not a good authority on homeopathy, to be polite about it. Last time, you were confusing wormseed with the medication made out of it, Cina. https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/adult-ascarid-or-undigested-earthworm.1307048/page-3

Going to the ER in case of worms, NO, we wouldn't do that, because then we could end up like that: https://www.drugs.com/sfx/albendazole-side-effects.html
We'll take Cina, of course, why would I waste my time doing homework if I don't use the results?

 

[Saaniya]

I don't deworm until they are access to eat worms bugs play in mud ..after dewormer I use 10 day liver Tonic for detox

 

[dawg53]

What about these guys?
View attachment 1795942 View attachment 1795943

Spring chickens, they are NOT. But, actually, I'm not disputing the fact that people lived shorter lives in the past. The question is - what got them? Did the worms get them while still alive? How do you know for sure? After they died though, the worms got them guaranteed.

@dawg53, there's no withdrawal time for eggs, you're not a good authority on homeopathy, to be polite about it. Last time, you were confusing wormseed with the medication made out of it, Cina. https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/adult-ascarid-or-undigested-earthworm.1307048/page-3

Going to the ER in case of worms, NO, we wouldn't do that, because then we could end up like that: https://www.drugs.com/sfx/albendazole-side-effects.html
We'll take Cina, of course, why would I waste my time doing homework if I don't use the results?

Thank God that He gave great minds to those who founded and discovered medicines that would save human beings lives. You should be thankful as well.
I've never proclaimed to be an authority on anything, that is true in my personal life as well. I copy and paste links like you. You're much better at it than me, an expert. I'm no computer whiz neither, I hunt and peck.

My chicken experience is years of OJT and I live and learn, otherwise I would respond to every post in the Emergency section. I wouldnt anyway, that will lead to quick burn out.
I HAVE dealt with worms in chickens, just about every type and know how to treat them. I know what preventative measures to take, I know what worms do to chickens and humans as well. I've been to poor countries around the world and have personally seen what parasites do to people. I can assure you that natural products arnt used to save lives.

There are many wormers that are used in humans including albendazole, pyrantal pamoate, wazine and ivermectin, others too. If it's good enough for humans and other animals, it's good enough for chickens. What does that tell you? Side effects are less of a risk than keeping worms in the body. Worms cause all kinds of damage in the body, every organ is effected, including blood. Have you ever seen a dog die infected with heartworms? A chicken with gapeworms, a cat with tapeworms? How they act or die? A human? Have you? No, I suppose you havnt.

Have you ever taken aspirin for a headache? There are side effects with aspirin as well. Would you like to see a link(s)? No, I'm not going to fill this page with links, it's simple common sense.
If you want answers to the questions you asked me, I suggest you might want to take a biology class OR maybe take a trip to a poor country and see for yourself. I know you wont do either, because it's all about you.
If anything, here's some help: Learn the Direct and Indirect life cycle of poultry worms.
Then you'll know why birds need to wormed regularly just like dogs and cats.

 

[cottagecheese]

Whoa, a personal attack! Isn't this against the rules? https://www.backyardchickens.com/help/terms. Anyway, nothing of what you say about me is true. Back on topic - it's not about me, it's about the diversity of opinions solicited by the OP in the first post of the thread. Also, posting links is very important and the way to prove objectivity.
Back to the comedy routine, I wrote a little sketch:

Members of the public with worms (chorus) : "We got worms! We got worms!"
Modern medicine (wearing nice white labcoat and smiling reassuringly): "Don't you worry your pretty little heads, I have something for the worms, but I'm an honest person and must mention that there could be side effects, some of them severe."
@dawg53: "Thank you!"
@Sue Gremlin (professional parasitologist): "I am not a big fan of throwing dewormer at animals as a matter of course. [...] They will often become reinfected quickly since they eat everything. If they are healthy and happy, there's no need, IMO, to evacuate the worms most of the time. In fact, I wonder sometimes if this causes more harm than good."https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/is-worming-necessary.1310063/page-3
"I don't think "no worms" is a realistic goal for livestock, nor do I think there is a lot of value in it. It depends on what kind of worms, and how many." https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/is-worming-necessary.1310063/page-4
@BugStalker :"I hated using fenbendazole in the past and I am worried for my 10yo roo."
@Dukes7779 (OP): " Looking for pros/cons of each as well as reasons/literature supporting your views."
@Saaniya: "after dewormer I use 10 day liver Tonic for detox"
@Shadrach: "Worms are not a problem until they reach a certain amount generally speaking. Routine worming is not only a waste of time but it also reduces the effectiveness of the medication over time. The worms become immune to it. I worm when a hen looks sick and I've had a fecal float done." https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/is-worming-necessary.1310063/
@chkva: "When you worm with medication, you can't eat the eggs. I feel like giving meds for no reason, isn't very healthy."
@sittychick: "I'm taking a class on Homeopathy (an alternative form of medicine). Its safe, natural."
@cottagecheese: "You do good work, modern medicine (generally speaking), but I think I'll sit this one out. I've got Cina up my sleeve."

 

[Trux]

 

[dawg53]

Whoa, a personal attack! Isn't this against the rules? https://www.backyardchickens.com/help/terms. Anyway, nothing of what you say about me is true. Back on topic - it's not about me, it's about the diversity of opinions solicited by the OP in the first post of the thread. Also, posting links is very important and the way to prove objectivity.
Back to the comedy routine, I wrote a little sketch:

Members of the public with worms (chorus) : "We got worms! We got worms!"
Modern medicine (wearing nice white labcoat and smiling reassuringly): "Don't you worry your pretty little heads, I have something for the worms, but I'm an honest person and must mention that there could be side effects, some of them severe."
@dawg53: "Thank you!"
@Sue Gremlin (professional parasitologist): "I am not a big fan of throwing dewormer at animals as a matter of course. [...] They will often become reinfected quickly since they eat everything. If they are healthy and happy, there's no need, IMO, to evacuate the worms most of the time. In fact, I wonder sometimes if this causes more harm than good."https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/is-worming-necessary.1310063/page-3
"I don't think "no worms" is a realistic goal for livestock, nor do I think there is a lot of value in it. It depends on what kind of worms, and how many." https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/is-worming-necessary.1310063/page-4
@BugStalker :"I hated using fenbendazole in the past and I am worried for my 10yo roo."
@Dukes7779 (OP): " Looking for pros/cons of each as well as reasons/literature supporting your views."
@Saaniya: "after dewormer I use 10 day liver Tonic for detox"
@Shadrach: "Worms are not a problem until they reach a certain amount generally speaking. Routine worming is not only a waste of time but it also reduces the effectiveness of the medication over time. The worms become immune to it. I worm when a hen looks sick and I've had a fecal float done." https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/is-worming-necessary.1310063/
@chkva: "When you worm with medication, you can't eat the eggs. I feel like giving meds for no reason, isn't very healthy."
@sittychick: "I'm taking a class on Homeopathy (an alternative form of medicine). Its safe, natural."
@cottagecheese: "You do good work, modern medicine (generally speaking), but I think I'll sit this one out. I've got Cina up my sleeve."

If the chickens feet will touch the ground, they will get worms. It's a fact.
You might as well go back to the beginning of BYC and add the quotes from people who've dealt with worms. You'd be typing for a few days. more like a few weeks or more!