Dilemma....Help Please, Suspected Botulism

[Haunted55]

Not quite sure what to do here....Khaki Campbell duck, allowed me to walk up to her and pick her up and bring her into house for treatment. My ducks love me at 4' not that close, they run any closer than 2'.

Symptoms: lethergy, first day acting like she was 'tripping' as in drugs, sorry, don't know how else to describe, no interest in water or feed. Holding head near body, no extending it as normal. She can, but just isn't. Standing in one spot. Just not right.

Brought her in, put in tub. She showed no interest in bathing, did drink a couple of mothful of the water. Checked her for egg troubles, could find nothing. A quick check of her crop didn't appear to have anything in it or any impaction, but not sure.... I thought maybe botulism, with all of the heat we've been having, it could be an issue. Gave activated charcoal, 2 capsules in 3 tbls. of water and got as much into her as possible with a dropper. She wasn't happy, but did get a good bit into her and within an hour she seemed well enough to put back with the rest. She wasn't 100% but she was preening herself and seemed more with it.

Next morning, yesterday, we brought her back into the house as she was again just standing there allowing us to grab her. She is being given Duramycin-10 at the 400mg. level. A vitamin E 400mg., and a Calcium with D, just in case. I am at a loss as to what I am dealing with. She isn't drinking as much as I'd like, but she is getting the meds into herself. I am not seeing her eating.

The Dilemma, I'm not sure what to treat for. This truly could be something along the lines of E.coli or botulism, but these goofy ducks are always 'eating the outside of their house which is covered with carved styrofoam. We cover it with wood but the little brats find a way around it. Could be something with the crop or gizzard because of that. They are always running off to the compost pile as well, chicken, turkeys, duck/geese shavings, no household leavings added. We also have a crop of mushrooms coming up everywhere, faster than I can get rid of them. I am open for suggestions here as right now my best just isn't covering it. The only thing I haven't done is give her a probiotic in case of crop issues, but if it's impaction or in the gizzard with something like the styrofoam....don't know, doubt it would work. Ideas? Please?

 

[Haunted55]

Update.....I have had some help from a friend who has helped me with the dosing for Cipro. The tetracycline was not showing me much so the problem needs the big guns. I have given her the first dosing of the solution I made and she will get another tonight. If this works, I will give the dosing instructions later, I do not want to post something that may do harm instead of helping.

The weight on this one is 2.39 lbs so she is starving as well. In a hour or so I will be giving her a meg dosing of vitamins, multi, in a syringe of water, maybe 1.5ml, and then later today, she will be getting Farmer's Friend made into a slurry and given with syringe and tube. Wish me luck! I have never tubed before and am shaking just thinking about it!

 

[Miss Lydia]

Update.....I have had some help from a friend who has helped me with the dosing for Cipro. The tetracycline was not showing me much so the problem needs the big guns. I have given her the first dosing of the solution I made and she will get another tonight. If this works, I will give the dosing instructions later, I do not want to post something that may do harm instead of helping.

The weight on this one is 2.39 lbs so she is starving as well. In a hour or so I will be giving her a meg dosing of vitamins, multi, in a syringe of water, maybe 1.5ml, and then later today, she will be getting Farmer's Friend made into a slurry and given with syringe and tube. Wish me luck! I have never tubed before and am shaking just thinking about it!

Oh my goodness H, I hope what your going to do helps her, do you think it's combination heat, possibly toxin? in the heat ya'll have been having even the water could be contaminated.

 

[Amiga]

Oh, No!

Ditto ML, first thought is heat-related, perhaps direct, perhaps not. What are the night temps in the shelter? You have covered the possibilities I can think of, heat, botulism or other toxin, possible impaction. I suppose we would include hardware disease as a possibility. Parasites? Got stung by something ? (I got stung multiple times last weekend and ended up needing medication)

Worst case I can imagine, late-stage egg yolk peritonitis, in which case the serious antibiotics might help.

Since she's not drinking normally, might keeping her as cool as possible help till she's more balanced? Probiotics, electrolytes, charcoal, hydrotherapy ought not to interfere with any other treatment you might give. Oh, if they could only tell us more of what's going on.

Some of her behavior is like broody around here - neck pulled in, acting weird. What kinds of venomous critters are up there? Just grasping, here.

Check her ears.

 

[Haunted55]

Oh my goodness H, I hope what your going to do helps her, do you think it's combination heat, possibly toxin? in the heat ya'll have been having even the water could be contaminated.

Their water is changed everday, pools and drinking, sometimes even more. I don't think it's the heat so much as they have been allowed out to settle into the shade and the outside the pen pool. The only thing I can think of is sometimes they go under their house and there might still be some old grain under the water-feed station. I thought I got it all but who knows!

Oh, No!

Ditto ML, first thought is heat-related, perhaps direct, perhaps not. What are the night temps in the shelter? You have covered the possibilities I can think of, heat, botulism or other toxin, possible impaction. I suppose we would include hardware disease as a possibility. Parasites? Got stung by something ? (I got stung multiple times last weekend and ended up needing medication)

I've gone round and round...I can almost bet it's a toxin or impaction of some kind. She laid an egg this afternoon so not that. Hardware disease is always a possibility. God I hope not.

Worst case I can imagine, late-stage egg yolk peritonitis, in which case the serious antibiotics might help.

Since she's not drinking normally, might keeping her as cool as possible help till she's more balanced? Probiotics, electrolytes, charcoal, hydrotherapy ought not to interfere with any other treatment you might give. Oh, if they could only tell us more of what's going on.

She's in the house with us right now and she is still alive! She won't lie down though. she stands and leans against the side of the tote she is in. She isn't feeling well at all. I did just see her with her head up a bit so the cipro must be helping some. Now I have to work on getting something into her as the weight has me concerned. If I hold the waterer up for her she will drink some. Going to make up some vitamin concentrate and see if I can get some of that into her. Maybe just the Bs just in case it is somekind of a neuro toxin. she's pooped on me twice today but mostly water with a small amount of partially digested grain. I'm just hoping it's not styrofoam impacting the gizzard. The crop? If I could feel something I'm crazy enough to try to open and fix....the gizzard....I don't think you can fix that can you?

Some of her behavior is like broody around here - neck pulled in, acting weird. What kinds of venomous critters are up there? Just grasping, here.

Brown Recluse spiders and me, Amiga. That's about it.

Check her ears.

Ears? As in mites? Infection? My brain is fried from the heat Amiga, I'm not catching on.

 

[Miss Lydia]

Their water is changed everday, pools and drinking, sometimes even more. I don't think it's the heat so much as they have been allowed out to settle into the shade and the outside the pen pool. The only thing I can think of is sometimes they go under their house and there might still be some old grain under the water-feed station. I thought I got it all but who knows!

I know there are so many things they can get into, I hope she pulls through for ya, thank goodness you can at least eliminate being egg bound. Sure wish I could help , but looks like for now you have it covered. My biggest concern here is always something metal they may find with all the rain we have been having I find things laying around that's been washed up out of the ground. I sure hope that's not the case with your girl.

 

[Amiga]

I was thinking ear infection, which can cause vertigo.

 

[Haunted55]

I know there are so many things they can get into, I hope she pulls through for ya, thank goodness you can at least eliminate being egg bound. Sure wish I could help , but looks like for now you have it covered. My biggest concern here is always something metal they may find with all the rain we have been having I find things laying around that's been washed up out of the ground. I sure hope that's not the case with your girl.

Same here Miss L....I try but they can find more stuff to get into. They were in Tom's shop the other day and came out with a screwdriver. I don't know what the weird goose was going to do with that but i asked her is she wanted to be my gofer girl from now on. I don't know, all I can do is try.

I was thinking ear infection, which can cause vertigo.

Okay...yeah, maybe.....She was acting and still is to a point, a bit spacey. I'll see if I can see anything in there. If there is, the cipro should get it as it's a sledgehammer and broad spectrum. Oh I hope it's that simple. I'll keep it up to date and see what happens.

 

[Haunted55]

Update: This morning when I came downstairs, the duck seemed okay. Bright-eyed and watching me, but not vocal. Around 7:00am she started having seizures and I thought it was all over. Throwing her head back over her back throwing her wings out, etc.. We gentled her and by 8:30 we were able to put her back into the tote with vitamin water. I gave her what I could of her Cipro and a vitamin cocktail including a poultry multi, regular strength and a whole Super B Complex vitamin to help her deal with any neuro issues. I'm really believing it to be Botulism, a mild case of it, but all the same, the symptoms fit only too well. I am hoping I can pull her through this. I have sent an email to Cornell's Duck Lab and am hoping that some type A personality will come in over the weekend and respond to my questions. I know this is probably a losing battle, as most don't survive a Botulism poisoning, but hope springs eternal and I am going to try until I can't do anymore.

Still not eating and haven't tried tubing and don't think I will until I can be sure the seizures have stopped. The vitamins should hold her for another few hours and I am hoping stop them. I am offering the water to her by holding a chick waterer up to her bill and guiding it into the water as well as having it available in the tote. She is drinking and I believe some on her own as well, because the level is going down and the shavings aren't wet. If I can get her without seizure, I will tube some feed into her.

She was offered a name and seemed to accept it...her name is Beatrice.

 

[Miss Lydia]

Update: This morning when I came downstairs, the duck seemed okay. Bright-eyed and watching me, but not vocal. Around 7:00am she started having seizures and I thought it was all over. Throwing her head back over her back throwing her wings out, etc.. We gentled her and by 8:30 we were able to put her back into the tote with vitamin water. I gave her what I could of her Cipro and a vitamin cocktail including a poultry multi, regular strength and a whole Super B Complex vitamin to help her deal with any neuro issues. I'm really believing it to be Botulism, a mild case of it, but all the same, the symptoms fit only too well. I am hoping I can pull her through this. I have sent an email to Cornell's Duck Lab and am hoping that some type A personality will come in over the weekend and respond to my questions. I know this is probably a losing battle, as most don't survive a Botulism poisoning, but hope springs eternal and I am going to try until I can't do anymore.

Still not eating and haven't tried tubing and don't think I will until I can be sure the seizures have stopped. The vitamins should hold her for another few hours and I am hoping stop them. I am offering the water to her by holding a chick waterer up to her bill and guiding it into the water as well as having it available in the tote. She is drinking and I believe some on her own as well, because the level is going down and the shavings aren't wet. If I can get her without seizure, I will tube some feed into her.

She was offered a name and seemed to accept it...her name is Beatrice.

Do you have molasses H? even though you have already done the charcoal I'd give her the molasses too. Bless your heart for sticking with her to get her through this. I'm sure you have the flush link if not it's in the duck stickies