Fermenting Feed for Sourdough Nerds

[yakitori]

I love the smell of coffee though, if I didn't feed my grounds to my worm bins I would consider using them in the coop!

oooh I have worm bins too! But they get the tea bags and the coop gets the coffee, lol. I’m currently composting inside the run, and it really gives the birds something to do.



The best part about pelletized horse bedding? it breaks down really fast in the compost! I want to see someone use it in a bigger coop to see whether it will work. I can imagine it being used for deep litter too. A bit of moisture to aid break down would also be great to keep the pine dust down.

For winter, I’m looking to DIY a much bigger poop scoop. But I keep putting it off because of how expensive hardware cloth is right now.

 

[Dephora]

oooh I have worm bins too! But they get the tea bags and the coop gets the coffee, lol. I’m currently composting inside the run, and it really gives the birds something to do.



The best part about pelletized horse bedding? it breaks down really fast in the compost! I want to see someone use it in a bigger coop to see whether it will work. I can imagine it being used for deep litter too. A bit of moisture to aid break down would also be great to keep the pine dust down.

For winter, I’m looking to DIY a much bigger poop scoop. But I keep putting it off because of how expensive hardware cloth is right now.

Aren't worm bins the literal best? I feel so much better about letting a head of lettuce go bad now that I have them. All the produce that goes bad is an investment in castings
I recently descovered twinings tea company doesn't use those little staples on their bags and it is SAD how happy that made me to not have to take the staple out, made my whole day.
Chickens + Compost = a match made in heaven.

Crazy how impossible hardware is to either find or how expensive it is now. Especially anything with plastic in it or that has to be shipped. I have been so desperate I have been back on craigslist to try to find things. It is a shame because now that I am finally working from home I actually have time to work on so many of projects. But most material I need is of course very expensive

 

[yakitori]

Aren't worm bins the literal best? I feel so much better about letting a head of lettuce go bad now that I have them. All the produce that goes bad is an investment in castings
I recently descovered twinings tea company doesn't use those little staples on their bags and it is SAD how happy that made me to not have to take the staple out, made my whole day.
Chickens + Compost = a match made in heaven.

Crazy how impossible hardware is to either find or how expensive it is now. Especially anything with plastic in it or that has to be shipped. I have been so desperate I have been back on craigslist to try to find things. It is a shame because now that I am finally working from home I actually have time to work on so many of projects. But most material I need is of course very expensive

Tell me about it! I made my coop mostly out of pallets. Taking that apart was such a pain. Thank goodness I had a friend who was tossing out a bunch of pressure treated 2x4s.

Craigslist is the best, Facebook market place is awesome too. I scored 40ft of free 4ft chain link fencing the other day, I was sooooo happy Keep looking! I’m sure you’ll find some great steals.

I bought some alfafa pellets today, and I’m going to experiment with fermenting those along with the feed. trying to figure out a good way to get some greens to the girls for winter, and it would be great if I didn’t have to give it to them separately. Did some calculations on feed consumption and it came to 0.13lb/day /bird over the past 7 weeks. That’s their consumption from age 8 - 15 week old. From 0-8 weeks, it averaged 0.09lb/bird/day.
I’m going to keep tracking it and see at what point it will level out. Just out of curiosity, nothing scientific!

 

[Dephora]

Tell me about it! I made my coop mostly out of pallets. Taking that apart was such a pain. Thank goodness I had a friend who was tossing out a bunch of pressure treated 2x4s.

Craigslist is the best, Facebook market place is awesome too. I scored 40ft of free 4ft chain link fencing the other day, I was sooooo happy Keep looking! I’m sure you’ll find some great steals.

I bought some alfafa pellets today, and I’m going to experiment with fermenting those along with the feed. trying to figure out a good way to get some greens to the girls for winter, and it would be great if I didn’t have to give it to them separately. Did some calculations on feed consumption and it came to 0.13lb/day /bird over the past 7 weeks. That’s their consumption from age 8 - 15 week old. From 0-8 weeks, it averaged 0.09lb/bird/day.
I’m going to keep tracking it and see at what point it will level out. Just out of curiosity, nothing scientific!

The difference between a science experiment and just messing around is that you write your results from an experiment down
Its writing it down in a journal that makes it science, otherwise messing around and experimenting look pretty much the same

The problem is later is 6 projects later coming across your journal and wondering what the heck the numbers you wrote down all relate too

 

[EggSighted4Life]

The best part about pelletized horse bedding? it breaks down really fast in the compost!

I used to pull a worm bin also.. but too much worm/bug richness on pasture (at my current location) my bird turn their noses up at the worms! When I lived int he irrigated desert, the bird loved the red wigglers. Worm bin was fun.. I've also done live meal worms.. also pure disgusting fun!

By pelleted horse bedding.. you mean the same thing as wood stove pellets? That's what I prefer to use when I kept my mini pigs indoors as litter in their litter box, but never had it actually clump in the same manner as kitty litter.. though it was scoopable.. not with a slotted litter scoop to leave extra bedding behind. Some of my local feed stores use them in chick bins, but I didn't like it in brooders.

I do love rice hulls that are available for only $12 locally, despite being $60 on Amazon.. and compost quite well! They don't smell nearly as good as pine bedding.. but.. that depends on the purpose and so many other factors.

It was washed river sand.. I had a dump truck load delivered.. quite simply.. my stock density is too high.. in addition to average humidity above 70% and often 99-100%, with average temperature around 55.. Things just don't dry out fast enough during the long wet season for it to work as described (in MY environment , and set up, consistently) despite all the wonderful things I read about it. I still use it as grit and as base layer under.. SEMI- deep litter.. I remove droppings I can see.. and it never gets enough moisture to start that whole active decomposing described by some.. more vented.. less pressed down.. more like the forest floor mulch with different particle sizes.. Not bare dirt or even sand.. to me is a breeding ground of bad bacteria... adding other things in (like leaves, grass clipping, pine needles, etc) helps to invite the insects and good bacteria to balance things out... never looking back and no funk to boot.

Crazy how impossible hardware is to either find or how expensive it is now.

When I started building the new coop 6-7 weeks ago, they were only $2.50 ish. Now, I paid over $7 for 2x4's just recently!

Yes, I do sell birds locally when I have them available, most often there is a waiting list for chicks or started birds. I quit with Silkies because they weren't for me even though they sold as fast as I could hatch them week in and week out for over a year. Turns out its a labor of love and you gotta really love the breed you're working with to make the amount of effort put in worth it. I have enjoyed working with a number of other breeds including.. French black copper Marans, Lav Orpington, Swedish Flower. & more... partly the reason why I can adamantly state that genetics is key..

Without journaling, I could not recall anything accurately. The numbers and facts.. they all get jumbled with my ideas.. So I need to use some sort of recording... Ya, then there's the deciphering! Your my kinda nerd, glad you saw the difference of different lacto ferments etc and enjoyed the link.. pm me your # and we'll text chicken talk/projects on occasion.

I bought some alfafa pellets today, and I’m going to experiment with fermenting those along with the feed.

I would just remind you that formulated rations have the vitamins and minerals more importantly amino acids added in.. and anything like that would be recommended as treat.. not more than 10% of the total daily intake. Also.. the birds may enjoy alfalfa cubes.. or rather not pelleted but still grass like.. if you know what I'm describing.. noting this is 100% about enrichment and NOT nutrients.. which alfalfa (maybe higher calcium/protein or carb content, but not sure which one, Just KNOW it's too rich) and other grass hays (closer to 8% protein I think, now I wonder about carb and other content.. because I buy and use these for my guinea pigs.. sorry this is HOW I learn) will likely be ultimately diminishing.. it *may* impact yolk color if it does actually add more xanthophylls.. and while I don't find it nutritionally important.. I DO think it's (alfalfa)ONE good alternative enrichment like sprouting or fodder for those that may not have winter ranging available!

Make sure our "benefits" are real not imagined.. my main point of posting the "scientific" information..

I often state NO supplement should be given more than 10 days in a row.. and NOW realize FF should be considered a nutritious treat or supplement that should be offered on occasion or as needed.. but full time FF.. what for?! And the worse part is we aren't even trying to sell anything and only trying to give our birds the best.. not realizing we (most of us) already do.. most of the time.

I go round and round.. so many things in my brain.. @yakitori. see if you can find a calorie content on your feed.. Otherwise make note if/when you switch to different feed rations.. example.. starter or flock raiser have about 3% less calcium (in theory an empty filler) than layer does. When they switch to lower protein for layer they gotta get less carbs.. right equal energy value.. different building blocks.. ALL animals eat to maintain their energy need.. it will level off when they stop growing.. there will be plateaus between pullet and hen stage.

 

[yakitori]

I often state NO supplement should be given more than 10 days in a row.. and NOW realize FF should be considered a nutritious treat or supplement that should be offered on occasion or as needed.. but full time FF.. what for?! And the worse part is we aren't even trying to sell anything and only trying to give our birds the best.. not realizing we (most of us) already do.. most of the time.

I go round and round.. so many things in my brain.. @yakitori. see if you can find a calorie content on your feed.. Otherwise make note if/when you switch to different feed rations.. example.. starter or flock raiser have about 3% less calcium (in theory an empty filler) than layer does. When they switch to lower protein for layer they gotta get less carbs.. right equal energy value.. different building blocks.. ALL animals eat to maintain their energy need.. it will level off when they stop growing.. there will be plateaus between pullet and hen stage.

I'm using a 20% protein all flock feed. I'm pretty frugal, so I usually get Dumor 20% chick starter, but they didn't have it at TSC when I went the nutritional info on purina's flock raiser feed is here (no caloric info though)

For 70 birds, I can definitely see the need to be very clear on nutrition and calories. But I only have 5 chickens, and they free range half the day. that's half a day where I have absolutely no control over their nutritional intake, so...I take that as a green light to mess with their food from time to time! Playing around with new foods and treats is more fun for me than it's necessary fo them - Feeding them the same stuff day in and day out bores me you know That said, I don't let my little experiments exceed 10% of the their feed.

The birds are currently offered free choice oyster shells but as they are not laying yet, they are pretty much ignoring it for the time being.

As for the alfafa, I bought pellets because they have shorter fiber strands, which is theoretically more digestible to chickens as opposed to the longer strands found in cubes and hay. Alfafa is 16% protein, but I'm reading that most of that won't be absorbed due to the high fiber content.

Nutritional info in the alfafa is
Protein Min 16%
FatMin 1.5%
FiberMax 30%

This is the brand that I got
I'm still looking more into it and having lots of fun while I'm at it!

 

[Ineke9909]

As a sourdough baker myself, I wondered about this! Thanks for the post, I’m trying it tonight.

 

[Dephora]

I never followed up on this thread!! How did your chickens do over winter? Did they lay all the way through? did you keep up the with the fermenting?

 

[yakitori]

I never followed up on this thread!! How did your chickens do over winter? Did they lay all the way through? did you keep up the with the fermenting?

Mine has been laying since December

They’re slowing down now, I’m guessing in preparation for their first moult. I stopped fermenting feed when spring came. Work obligations made it hard for me to do the preparations, and pellets were just so much easier!

I did end up having to make a slightly wetter fermented mash so they wouldn’t waste as much feed. They liked the drier ferments better, but also loved to toss it around

I plan on getting back into it soon, especially with the upcoming moult, I want to provide the best nutrition I can

 

[storre]

I wanted to write this to help anyone who had the same question I did when I first got into fermenting feed. I'm an avid fermenter (is that a word?), I make my own sourdough bread, kefir, saukraut and other fermented foods. However, the concept of fermenting chicken feed was new to me.

Most of the writing on making fermented feed consists of 2-3 days of fermentation and submersing feed in water. This wasn't ideal for me, as I'm not an organized person, and would likely forget to prepare food for my chickens 3 days in advance. Draining the liquid also seemed like a chore. Being familiar with ferments, I had a nagging thought, that is, ferments that are up and running generally need less than 24 hours to do their magic (ie. milk kefir - 12 to 24 hours, sourdough starter - 6 hours max), so theoretically the same could be done for chicken feed.

After looking into it a bit, the concept really isn't hard to understand - chicken feed is mostly made of grains, and grains are fairly easy to ferment. So by this logic, I should be able to use my sourdough starter (a grain ferment) to ferment chicken feed right? As I couldn't find *any* information on this on BYC, so I decided it was time to experiment.

I used my active sourdough starter to kick start my fermented feed one night. I added just enough water so the feed was moist, but not mushy. Lo and behold it was smelling just like a sourdough starter in a couple of hours. By morning, it actually had a layer of hooch on the surface - 8 hours was more than enough. I decided it was ready and fed it to my chickens. The benefits were pretty instant, my chicken's poop didn't smell as much by the evening and seemed firmer than before.

When I got to the last bit of my first batch of fermented feed, I used it to start the next batch by adding more water and dry feed. This time I placed it in the fridge, and let it ferment overnight in the refrigerator. This worked better - it had a good aroma and did not exhibit signs of over fermentation (hooch/alcohol layer on the surface).

Since then I've pretty much sustained the same formula (I'm about a month in). One batch typically lasts my 8 birds 3 days. When it runs low, I simply add more water and feed. I eye the amounts I use - the same way I feed my sourdough starter. My sourdough starter has never gone bad, so I have no reason to believe that my fermented feed starter will. Some where along the way, my ferment has taken on a very nice smell, a little bit sweet and almost yoghurty. I've been tempted to taste it myself more than once!

So yes, with a boost from my sourdough starter, I've found that feed can be fermented without being underwater, and fermentation can be done in under 6 hours (if you leave it at room temperature). The chickens seem to be reaping all the purported benefits of a fermented feed.

Your directions are not very clear. You added just enough water so it is moist. But how much sourdough starter?