Genetic question about spangled gene...

[nicalandia]

This article mentioned that through breeding trials, spangling is sex linked to a certain extent: https://www.genetics.org/content/genetics/8/4/367.full.pdf

Thanks for sharing, that article is from 1920's and more recent research has confirmed the Autosomal nature of Spangling which is not a single gene but a combination of multiple genes that are linked to each other by a somewhat close linkage(10 to 15 map units of each other)

 

[nicalandia]

Oh neat! And hope I didn’t offend. I was reading about it because I have a Mille fleur roo and what appears to be a silver spangled chick. Was wondering about the genetics of it. Hence why I had both that article open and this thread

Did you get the spangled chick or it hatched from the Mille Fleur rooster? I ask because Spangling(autosomal polygenic trait) and mottling(single recessive autosomal mutation) can look very similar for example Silver Millie Fleur are mottled on a silver columbian base, that can look vary close to Silver Spangling

these are mottled based

 

[NatJ]

I have a Mille fleur roo and what appears to be a silver spangled chick.

My mille fleur rooster, as I’ve been reading, may not actually even be mille fleur because he only has white tipped feathers on his head and in his down feathers. His father was a porcelain sablepoot (the mille fleur patterning was in the porcelain) and his mother was a white silkie/OEGB mix.

He may just be a carrier for mottling correct?

Mottling is caused by a recessive gene.
So the Porcelain Sablepoot would have the mottling gene, and his son (your rooster) would have one copy of the gene.
Yes, that makes him a carrier for mottling.

And have spangling?

I do not think he has the particular set of genes that make "spangling" (the kind found in Silver Spangled Hamburgs.)

But some kinds of "spangled" chickens are caused by the mottling gene (Spangled Old English Game Bantam, Spangled Cornish, Spangled Russian Orloff.)

(Obviously, whoever was naming those chicken colors did not know which ones were caused by what genes!)

The chick looks like this:
View attachment 2833083

I’m just guessing silver spangled because I googled it and some of the chicks look like this one and I know it’s from that rooster because of other traits it has (4 toes, etc)

It can be difficult to look at a chick and predict the adult color, and with a mixed-breed chick it is even harder.

I'm fairly sure your chick will have some kind of pattern in silver and black, but I don't think it will have the kind of spangling that Silver Spangled Hamburgs have. (That's based on what you've said of its ancestors, and what genes they are likely to have.)

You should be able to tell something of the appearance when it gets its first set of feathers, but sometimes the pattern continues to change as a chick grows and molts, so it may not really show the adult pattern until it is an adult.

I'd love to see updated photos as it grows up

 

[meepANDpeep]

Mottling is caused by a recessive gene.
So the Porcelain Sablepoot would have the mottling gene, and his son (your rooster) would have one copy of the gene.
Yes, that makes him a carrier for mottling.


I do not think he has the particular set of genes that make "spangling" (the kind found in Silver Spangled Hamburgs.)

But some kinds of "spangled" chickens are caused by the mottling gene (Spangled Old English Game Bantam, Spangled Cornish, Spangled Russian Orloff.)

(Obviously, whoever was naming those chicken colors did not know which ones were caused by what genes!)


It can be difficult to look at a chick and predict the adult color, and with a mixed-breed chick it is even harder.

I'm fairly sure your chick will have some kind of pattern in silver and black, but I don't think it will have the kind of spangling that Silver Spangled Hamburgs have. (That's based on what you've said of its ancestors, and what genes they are likely to have.)

You should be able to tell something of the appearance when it gets its first set of feathers, but sometimes the pattern continues to change as a chick grows and molts, so it may not really show the adult pattern until it is an adult.

I'd love to see updated photos as it grows up

My rooster is 1/4 OEGB (old english game bird) and 1/2 Sablepoot - you listed both as breeds with mottling, so that must be responsible for his pattern, so not spangling. Thank you for the clarification! And, yes! I'll update with pictures as the feathers begin coming out

 

[NatJ]

Thank you Makes sense. They're used so interchangeably it was hard for me to know. So his chick probably is not mottled then?

Depending on the mother, and depending on what genes the father passed on to the chick, it might be mottled, or it might carry mottled, or it might not.

My rooster is 1/4 OEGB (old english game bird) and 1/2 Sablepoot - you listed both as breeds with mottling, so that must be responsible for his pattern, so not spangling. Thank you for the clarification!

Some OEGBs (Old English Game Bantams) have mottling, and some do not. They are a breed that comes in many colors and patterns (but not "spangled" the way Hamburgs are.)

 

[nicalandia]

It would be fair to say that you need to use a combination of genes that first give you the colours you need, then move the black around the feather the correct way to form the spangle.

That is true, eb/eb, Co/Co, mo/mo, S/S would give you a Silver Spangled look a like

 

[LateBirdFarms]

Those chickens are beautiful!

Thank you so much for updating!


It's great to know how this came out!

How many patterned chicks vs. black chicks were there in total? With only a few, it's pretty common to get coincidences that look like they mean something

These two are my absolute favorites, the lay almost daily like a hamburg but are sooo much more docile with the softest feathers I've ever felt, and they're happy to brood AND easily broken if I don't want them sitting!

First batch was 3:3, second 1F:2M, small enough to be totally misleading!

 

[Amer]

Just thought I'd add some updated pictures to go along with this old thread..
The baby on the left grew into this glorious pancake:
View attachment 2842114
And coincidentally, all the patterned chicks all turned out female anyway!
Oddly enough, even the single patterned chick out of my SSHxBantam Cochin (black) trio turned out to be a pullet, while her solid black siblings were male!
View attachment 2842122

if I hadn't asked in advance, luck would have totally fooled me into believing this was indeed a sex linked breeding! Thanks again to all the BYC experts who share they're hard earned knowledge!

Mad pancake
I had a turkey named Pancake.

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

Just thought I'd add some updated pictures to go along with this old thread..
The baby on the left grew into this glorious pancake:
View attachment 2842114
And coincidentally, all the patterned chicks all turned out female anyway!
Oddly enough, even the single patterned chick out of my SSHxBantam Cochin (black) trio turned out to be a pullet, while her solid black siblings were male!
View attachment 2842122

if I hadn't asked in advance, luck would have totally fooled me into believing this was indeed a sex linked breeding! Thanks again to all the BYC experts who share they're hard earned knowledge!

Beautiful hens!

 

[The Moonshiner]

I haven't worked with spangled myself but I think the cross would just give you black chicks.
Why or how did you suspect it would produce sex links? Just curious.
Spangled is a gene but a result of a combination of genes.