Genetics : Take a guess before hatch : Pics

[BlossomSilkies]

I will take very good care of him!

 

[nicalandia]

I have heard of this - but have not been successful in doing it.

Here is another example on how it doesn't work..
Mother - Buff Laced Polish
Father - black sizzle above.
Almost all chicks (save 3) have light skin. Some with the light skin are female.

seems you are confused

you are confusing light skin color(none sex linked trait) with clear shanks(sex linked trait),

light skin showing in your silkies (going by the pics you showed) is due to Heterozygous Fibromelanotic(Fm) seems like some of your black skin boys are heterozygous for Fm, and the light skin hen is devoided(lacks) of the Fibromelanotic gene making her a fm+/fm+, if you cross her to that heterozygous rooster, you will get light skin hens and light skin boys,(with dark skin hens and dark skin boys)


when you say "here is another example on how it doesnt work" you are also misguided, Why? let me explain..



first lets draw the birds genotype then we will do the cross...

using your black sizzle roo(heterozygous for Fibromelanotic) your boy is Birchen at the e locus ER/ER Fm/fm+(Fibromelanotic heterozygote) id+/id+(sex linked wild type counterpart of dermal inhibitor, id+ allows for dark skin and dark shanks)

now lets do the same thing with the Buff laced Polish hen


lets take a look at the pic above, the first thing I see(concerning this topic) is the hens slate shanks, what this means? the hens carry id+/- (only one copy as its sex linked and hens can only carry one copy of sex linked genes) id+ is what allows for dark shanks and dark skin in the presence of Fibromelanotic

ok lets draw her genetic make up, fm+/fm+(none dark skin wild counter part of Fibromelanotic) id+/-(sex linked wild type counterpart of dermal inhibitor, id+ allows for dark skin and dark shanks)

if you use a simple punnett square you will notice how you will have 50/50 chance of getting white skin birds and black skin birds, NONE of your crossings are so far Sex linked at all
********************************************************************************************************************************

so how does the sex linked method I talk about works? its easy, what we do is take advantage of the sex linked dermal inhibitor found on birds with white/yellow shanks(Id) and use it to inhibit Fibromelanotic on males...

we use a silkie roo(any color aslong as its pure for Fibromelanotic) this roo is Fm/Fm(black skin) id+/id+(black/slate shanks)
we use a white leghorn hen(or any other hen with white/yellow shanks) this hen is fm+/fm+(clear skin) Id/Id(yellow shanks)

knowing how sex linked genes are inherited, our F1 females will get their only id alled(id+ in this case) from their father
Fm(Fibromelanotic) is an autosomal gene and the hens will get one copy of fm+ from their mothers and one copy of Fm from their father making their genotype Fm/fm+ id+/- this F1 hens will have black skin and black shanks....

now lets draw our F1 boys genotype: these boys will be Fm/fm+ Id/id+ their Id gene is inherited by their mother, this Id gene will inhibit any dermal pigment on their skin making them clear skin at hatch, making this type of sex linked cross about the easiest one to sex

any questions?

 

[nicalandia]

I will take very good care of him!

thanks, with your help I will be able to help alot of people

 

[aoxa]

seems you are confused

you are confusing light skin color(none sex linked trait) with clear shanks(sex linked trait),

light skin showing in your silkies (going by the pics you showed) is due to Heterozygous Fibromelanotic(Fm) seems like some of your black skin boys are heterozygous for Fm, and the light skin hen is devoided(lacks) of the Fibromelanotic gene making her a fm+/fm+, if you cross her to that heterozygous rooster, you will get light skin hens and light skin boys,(with dark skin hens and dark skin boys)


when you say "here is another example on how it doesnt work" you are also misguided, Why? let me explain..



first lets draw the birds genotype then we will do the cross...

using your black sizzle roo(heterozygous for Fibromelanotic) your boy is Birchen at the e locus ER/ER Fm/fm+(Fibromelanotic heterozygote) id+/id+(sex linked wild type counterpart of dermal inhibitor, id+ allows for dark skin and dark shanks) 

now lets do the same thing with the Buff laced Polish hen


lets take a look at the pic above, the first thing I see(concerning this topic) is the hens slate shanks, what this means? the hens carry id+/- (only one copy as its sex linked and hens can only carry one copy of sex linked genes) id+ is what allows for dark shanks and dark skin in the presence of Fibromelanotic

ok lets draw her genetic make up, fm+/fm+(none dark skin wild counter part of Fibromelanotic) id+/-(sex linked wild type counterpart of dermal inhibitor, id+ allows for dark skin and dark shanks) 

if you use a simple punnett square you will notice how you will have 50/50 chance of getting white skin birds and black skin birds, NONE of your crossings are so far Sex linked at all
********************************************************************************************************************************

so how does the sex linked method I talk about works? its easy, what we do is take advantage of the sex linked dermal inhibitor found on birds with white/yellow shanks(Id) and use it to inhibit Fibromelanotic on males...

we use a silkie roo(any color aslong as its pure for Fibromelanotic) this roo is Fm/Fm(black skin)  id+/id+(black/slate shanks)
we use a white leghorn hen(or any other hen with white/yellow shanks) this hen is fm+/fm+(clear skin) Id/Id(yellow shanks)

knowing how sex linked genes are inherited, our F1 females will get their only id alled(id+ in this case) from their father
Fm(Fibromelanotic) is an autosomal gene and the hens will get one copy of fm+ from their mothers and one copy of Fm from their father making their genotype Fm/fm+ id+/- this F1 hens will have black skin and black shanks....

now lets draw our F1 boys genotype: these boys will be Fm/fm+ Id/id+ their Id gene is inherited by their mother, this Id gene will inhibit any dermal pigment on their skin making them clear skin at hatch, making this type of sex linked cross about the easiest one to sex

any questions?

@_@ Nope.. That makes sense. I was confusing the skin alone as the sex link indicator. Shanks.. Got it. If I had a cochin to cross to my frizzled silkie boy - that would work? I do have cochins - they have yellow legs... Therefore, they should be able to be sex linked?

I'm sorry - I was confused. I misunderstood the sexlinking in this cross.

 

[Georgia Boy 1970]

I have heard of this - but have not been successful in doing it. A few boys have had light skin, but a few have also had black skin.
This was with a light skinned silkie and a black skinned silkie

You can see a light skinned boy in the background.
No light skinned girls - but the girl I have is a silkie and has light skin - so how would that have been sex linked to her?

Mother

Father

Girl #1

Girl #2

Mating daughter #1 to male:

Resulted in:

Daughter #1

Son # 1
Here is another example on how it doesn't work..
Mother - Buff Laced Polish
Father - black sizzle above.
Almost all chicks (save 3) have light skin. Some with the light skin are female.

Light skinned female

Light skinned male

One of the dark skinned chicks - too young to tell in my opinion.

Older smooth - dark skinned female.

Is "Mother" a chocolate silkie?

 

[aoxa]

Is "Mother" a chocolate silkie?

She's all kinds of mixed colours

 

[nicalandia]

@_@ Nope.. That makes sense. I was confusing the skin alone as the sex link indicator. Shanks.. Got it. If I had a cochin to cross to my frizzled silkie boy - that would work? I do have cochins - they have yellow legs... Therefore, they should be able to be sex linked?
I'm sorry - I was confused. I misunderstood the sexlinking in this cross.

its ok dont worry about it, am happy teaching genetics, but your frizzle silkie boy is heterozygous for Fibromelanotic will not make a good candidate for sex links(as father) you will need to use another unrelated silkie rooster

 

[aoxa]

its ok dont worry about it, am happy teaching genetics, but your frizzle silkie boy is heterozygous for Fibromelanotic will not make a good candidate for sex links(as father) you will need to use another unrelated silkie rooster

My buff boy would work, would he not? And how do I tell if he is heterozygous for Fibromelanotic?

He is many generations into the sizzle project. Not just a simple cross between a frizzled cochin and a silkie.

 

[nicalandia]

My buff boy would work, would he not? And how do I tell if he is heterozygous for Fibromelanotic?
He is many generations into the sizzle project. Not just a simple cross between a frizzled cochin and a silkie.

on silkies is impossible to detect fibromelanotic heterozygotes, the only way is outcrossing, just like you did using the polish hen.... say if you cross brid your buff silkie roo over the polish hen, and 10 chicks out of 10 eggs hatch with black skin you have a rooster with two copies of fibromelanotic, IF any chick hatch with white skin you have a heterozygote..

 

[aoxa]

on silkies is impossible to detect fibromelanotic heterozygotes, the only way is outcrossing, just like you did using the polish hen.... say if you cross brid your buff silkie roo over the polish hen, and 10 chicks out of 10 eggs hatch with black skin you have a rooster with two copies of fibromelanotic, IF any chick hatch with white skin you have a heterozygote..

Okay so now I'm lost.. Isn't the point to sex link with a silkie is to use a silkie rooster over a light skinned (and light legged) hen? If all had black skin, wouldn't that be proving against what you are saying? Or are you saying that the chicks would be heterozygote...?

Do you see where I am getting confused?