GMO dangers and animal miscarriages

[Erica]

Quote:
LOL

You don't REALLY believe this do you?
Are these "toxins" more powerful than the Hydrochloric Acid your stomach already produces?

Stomach acids are toxins? I would have thought they have surface effects rather than systemic ones. I'm sure you know better.

It's very hard to trust GMO safety 'experts' if they get an important detail wrong. They said the pesticide in GM corn can't get into the human bloodstream. It certainly has, and on a grand scale.

How it got there, what it might do and whether or not we should be concerned are questions to be asked. What's needed is a lot wider questioning, not narrower.

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
LOL

You don't REALLY believe this do you?
Are these "toxins" more powerful than the Hydrochloric Acid your stomach already produces?

Stomach acids are toxins? I would have thought they have surface effects rather than systemic ones. I'm sure you know better.

It's very hard to trust GMO safety 'experts' if they get an important detail wrong. They said the pesticide in GM corn can't get into the human bloodstream. It certainly has, and on a grand scale.

How it got there, what it might do and whether or not we should be concerned are questions to be asked. What's needed is a lot wider questioning, not narrower.

You could look at it this way,
The acid secretions from our stomach wall are between pH 0.8 and pH 1.0. This makes the secretions so strong that, if bottled, they would be too dangerous to have on an open shelf in a school laboratory and would have to be labelled ‘corrosive’. This is strong enough normally to destroy human tissues on contact.
The stomach is protected against damage from the acid by a lining of mucus, unless a person suffers from an ulcer.
Remember the lower the pH the stronger the acid and Battery acid is from 0 to 1.0 (so about the same as the secretions from the stomach wall.

Chris

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

It's very hard to trust GMO safety 'experts' if they get an important detail wrong

It's just as hard to trust the anti GMO side when they rely on hyped up reports with misleading information designed to evoke an emotional rather than a logical response​

 

[brownegger]

I would like to add some things to this discussion! First off, I think it is great that there seems to be some of you whom remain anti-GMO. The problem is exactly what many of you have specified, there are few hardcore studies about GMO's and their effects on living organisms. Any of them which show any signs of a negative impact are generally hidden and discredited for a number of reasons by the pro-GMO side. In fact, these products have been increasing in our markets most notably since 1996 without any notice to the public. Many of these products enter the market without substantial testing using a tactic called "post-market surveillance". Nothing happens immediately to anyone who eats this stuff, that's why it continues to become a part of many foods in our supermarkets. The effects are not "acute" meaning they would be noticed soon after consumption. The effects of eating GMO foods is "chronic" or "delayed" effects which are not directly apparent from the use of GMO's in the diet. Aside from the possible nutrition concerns would be the liberal use of glyphosate (Roundup) to spray the crops. Who produces the GMO's? Who produces the Roundup? Who controls 90% of the world agricultural crop market? You may have guessed it....Monsanto! Let me remind folks that Monsanto was the same company behind DDT (still is) and "agent orange" among a few other toxic compounds of which the effects have been long lasting. DDT was given a big thumbs up before any substantial testing was done.....assumed safe by everyone! The company has not changed but, has managed to grow into one of the largest corporations on the globe! Many billions of dollars are at play and to believe for one second that lobbyists are not in the White House, FDA, EPA, supreme court, etc. is absolute foolishness! When that much money is involved, any agenda of the corporation is possible! Do not misunderstand this fact. It is true that the genes of GE crops can cross with neighboring non-GE crops and therefore replanting the seeds from the non-GE crop is a direct violation of Monsanto's patent!! Who ever here does not think this is wrong needs to reevaluate their thought process. This has happened and continues to happen all over this country and around the globe! Farmers are being sued because their crops were unknowingly pollinated by neighboring crops and they replanted their seeds as they have done for generations. Monsanto uses a series of "marker genes" that once entered into the gene code becomes a product under their patent rights! Aside from all other reasons to avoid GMO/GE products this should strike more people to think about the LONGTERM safety of their foods and the nature of the company producing the crop technology. No one in control of our food should have as much power as Monsanto Corporation. There is nothing "natural" about splicing gene codes from one organism into another to create a desired trait. The results of such are numerous enough to have incorporated most of our commercially produced crops already and working on many more as we read. It will take many years to see more effects of these products, it will likely be too late before anything can be done to reverse the effects. What they're doing is playing God and nothing short of it. If you really look into things deep, you will find plenty of unnerving facts about what is going on with our food system and the links to our overall health declines over the past couple of decades. I for one have little choice in the quality of food I can currently purchase. I grow a nice garden, raise chickens, ducks and quail, I also hunt and fish, with a little wild foraging thrown in. I am a college student and earn very little to afford the few things I must buy, including my feed, though I do pasture my birds to round things out. It is a shame our food system has become such a concern and Monsanto is at the roots of it all! Don't be fooled, their is a lot of propaganda which holds Monsanto in a positive light....it's all fabricated crap...believe that! Sorry for the long post....I am passionate about this subject...more should be!

 

[kemclaughlin]

Quote:
That's my beef, label them & then we can choose. I got a free can of store brand tuna today & I flipped when instead of water, tuna & salt or whatever, it contained broth. Then reading further I see it is broth with soy, so I quickly pick up my preferred brand & yep, that one and every other one on the shelf now has broth that contains soy in it. So there goes another healthy food down the drain by adding soy! I get enough soy in snack foods etc. So I can't even have tuna without soy ???? What crap our food supply has become.

Monsanto has gone as far as suing to prevent companies from labeling their food as NON-GMO. We can't get our food labeled as non gmo so no one really knows what they are eating unless they are growing it themselves or buying locally.

My beef with Monsanto is less about GMO and more about their efforts and methods that they use to force it on us.

 

[Erica]

Quote:
It's just as hard to trust the anti GMO side when they rely on hyped up reports with misleading information designed to evoke an emotional rather than a logical response

There's nothing emotional about the fact that GMO corporations have made at least one grand scale mistake. They stated that GM pesticides in corn cannot survive the human digestive process. It's perfectly logical to want independent testing before trusting the rest of their claims.

But the king of all logics I suppose is profit... Ethics are outside that little equation. On that score, I grant you the right to be more logical than I am...

Agree with others, we should be able to exercise choice when it comes to food, no matter what our views are based on. A huge cornerstone of democracy has been entirely wiped out in relation to what goes into our bodies, and our children's bodies. If I'm Jewish I can exercise choice based on what contains pork etc, no matter what 'logic' may or may not exist in my decision. Why not GMO?

 

[Chris09]

Quote:
That's my beef, label them & then we can choose. I got a free can of store brand tuna today & I flipped when instead of water, tuna & salt or whatever, it contained broth. Then reading further I see it is broth with soy, so I quickly pick up my preferred brand & yep, that one and every other one on the shelf now has broth that contains soy in it. So there goes another healthy food down the drain by adding soy! I get enough soy in snack foods etc. So I can't even have tuna without soy ???? What crap our food supply has become.

Monsanto has gone as far as suing to prevent companies from labeling their food as NON-GMO. We can't get our food labeled as non gmo so no one really knows what they are eating unless they are growing it themselves or buying locally.

My beef with Monsanto is less about GMO and more about their efforts and methods that they use to force it on us.

This in not entirely true, Europe laws require labeling of GM food.

Chris

 

[ChickenAl]

Brownegger, I understand your frustration, and applaud your passion. We are unwittingly being forced into a corner with the lack of choice in the food we can purchase. Undoubtedly, there is money at the core of the circumstance. Awareness is the key to bringing more folks into action against something we feel is inherently wrong. The problem lies in that the legal system, globalization, corporate wealth, ignorance and apathy are all working against it. Being individually responsible for our own lifestyle is the only recourse that may be left. And, that may be lost at some point too.

In fifty or a hundred years we may find all of this genetic engineering has paid a big dividend in wiping out world-wide malnutrition, or that it has turned us into a population of chronically sick and dying humans. Our lives are short, and the short sightedness of those who hold the strings may be our undoing. In the meantime, we can do what we can for ourselves, family and communities by trying to instill a sense of the larger picture, in that we are all in this together and it is to our benefit to help one another.

We can't fight the dragon when we don't even know if it is a myth or a actual creature. I don't believe GMOs are all that good, but I have nothing concrete to base my opinion on. I do know that certain chemicals used or formerly used in agriculture are harmful, as demonstrated by DDT, Agent Orange and their closely related cousins. I believe nature takes a slow course that provides for our physical and nutritional needs all by itself, but I would not eat poison Ivy either. By genetic engineering, we are speeding along the process without natural selection taking place. We don't know if we will throw the entire insect world out of balance. We know precious little about being masters of our own universe. It has gotten along fine without our intervention for quite some time. Something must have been right.

It may be too late by the time all of the effects will have been seen, studied and published as to whether or not GMOs have indeed proven to be harmful. There are no easy answers, only opinions at this point. I tend to err on your side of the equation and would be happy to see more come to the same conclusion. Then, I can only hope we are correct.

Everything winds up in the food chain, from the lowest forms of life to the feed we offer to our chickens, to the eggs and meat we get from those chickens. It's all connected...

Hope I didn't drift too far off the original topic.

 

[TheWaddler]

BT is a naturally occurring bacteria that ONLY affects insects and their larvae.

SiV used to only affect monkeys. Then it somehow got to humans and became HiV....aka Aids. Sure that might be a far stretch but who would have thought we would have the monkey disease at one time. Just saying the possibility exist no matter how slim.​

 

[brownegger]

As for the BT in corn....definitely not natural!! BT was originally produced by soil bacterias. They took the gene code for the production of BT from the bacteria and spliced it into the gene code of the GE corn. This is by far the most unnatural form of BT production! Now, when an insect eats the corn...it dies. I don't care who is selling the safety of a product like this but, I'm not buying the bs! Also, food for thought....it has been proven that glyphosate does not biodegrade as fast as it was originally claimed. That means each year roundup is sprayed, it accumulates more glyphosate in the soil at an increasing rate each year. Weeds have already developed some resistance to it and they now can spray more roundup to kill the resistant weeds. It could rain roundup and it will not kill their roundup ready crops. That my friends is scary! Anyways, we would do well to heed that there is at least the potential to consume an ever increasing amount of the herbicide glyphosate.

Thanks for all the positive input! More people should be aware of all the goings on around the GMO controversy even if the GE crops are not your main concern. Purchase local if you can, organic if you can, save your seeds! I am not some whacko granola crunchin' tree hugger but, a genuinely concerned person just like many of you. Educate yourself and make a stand, even on an individual basis. An entire culture of farming has changed and is changing across the globe. Europe is a prime example of the control that the people should have over their food! If their were a definitive choice, there would be little need for GE crops anymore! That, I can assume, would be the likely outcome!

As far as being off topic, I think it is all relative and believe it is likely that unknown consequences do exist for breeding animals. I'm glad this was brought up!