Goat experts and opinionated people needed: ivermectin vs herbals

[Chatychick]

If she is 45 days or over in her pregnancy she should be ok with worming and it wont hurt the babies as I worm mine before breeding and when they are over 45 days they get wormed again if they need it. Check her eyelids and see what color they are...if pale then worm her and if they are a bright pink its something else or she is putting everything into her babies is why she isnt gaining weight. I check the lids first and go from there. Cydectin is safe for Pg goats, also a paste wormer will work for tapeworms and I dont use Quest as its very tricky but some do ...I dont...check her first and then worm ...thats what I would do and also give her some alfalfa pellets or alf hayor some beet pulp as that should help with weight. Just dont overload her with feed if she isnt used to it. That can cause more problems. Good luck

 

[freemotion]

OK, thanks, I will go check her eyelids and report my findings! She now has a custom-built hayrack and free-choice alfalfa pellet feeder (pygmy-proof) and I am bringing her grain and beetpulp 4 times a day or more. She cannot take in quite a quart of food, no matter what it is, I think her stomach capacity has shrunk and needs to be increased gradually.

 

[1acrefarm]

I am by no means an expert. I found a package of goat dewormer at TSC that claims that it is safe for all goats including pregnant and lactating does. I do not know from experience how good the product is though because I first used it 2 days ago. It is called Ivesco. It is in pellet form and the instructions say mix 1/10 pound for every 100 pounds of goat with feed.

 

[Chirpy]

I'm with you on trying to figure out what is best for worming my goats...

, the info out there is so contradictory... lots of personal opinions.

I have come to the conclusion that I will probably only use Ivermectin for my pregnant does, if I worm them while pregnant.

Here's some sites that might add to your difficult decision...

http://www.extension.umn.edu/meatgoats/components/pdfs/FAMACHA_Postels.pdf

http://goat-link.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=110&Itemid=107

Best wishes and when you figure it all out, please tell me!

 

[pinkchick]

I only stopped to buy chicken feed remember this!
I rescued my Pygmy goaties from a feed store (no less) in June of this year.
2 does one about 4 years old and the other 7 years old. She (feed store owner) told me that she rescued them from someone else about 1 year previously. RIGHT !!!!!!! They were extremely bloated, covered in Lice (no hair on their backs, crawling skin), curled hooves, and very, very scared. I asked how long they had been in the little 10x10 pen in front of the feed store, SHE told me 4 mos! 4 MONTHS !

No where to go just shut in and miserable!
Looked at DH looking at me

, poor little things. He knew we were going home with 2 little goats that day, didn't say a word just took large dog crate out of back of truck and waited patiently. (I had been telling him for 5 years that I wanted Pygmy's)
As DH waited, feed store owner and I were talking, I gently persuaded her that these goaties should go home with me. She did agree after about 20 minutes of debating. I reminded her that these goats were in bad condition IMO and she did not want me calling the humane society to report their condition. She agreed, I did not pay for these goats, she wanted $250.00, no way! Just loaded them up and brought them home. She stated earlier that she had them for a year, so I asked when she last wormed them and did the vital maintenance things she said she would have to get back to me. Yeah right! (More on this later)

I did not have anywhere or anything for them just knew that they would be happier here. Got home and built temp. shelter and small fenced area for them. 5 days later , I had a funny feeling that 7 yo was PG. Udders were full and right side of tummy was moving on its own. I knew she had to be close but did not know how far along! I'm new to goats, grew up with horses! So, I call Feed Store gal.....what a crock! " They may have been exposed in January, but I'm not sure" SHE says! (still no info on maintenance)
Frantically go to vet and describe situation, possible PG, white inside eyelids( this I did know) she has me give Ivermectin injection and dust for lice. I get home with everything, give injection and dust ..................45 minutes later out pops "Round-UP". OMG! I've never done anything like this before! Thank goodness I had sneaky feeling and watched youtube video that morning about birthing goaties. I know NOW!
After all that I go to vet and take Momma Goat and Round-Up for check up. Everybody fines. Six months later they all live in goatie taj-mahal and have 2.5 acres of blackberries. Spoiled rotten little bah bahs. I love them! DH just won't let them sleep in house!

Almost forgot, SHE called one month later and told me it was time to worm!

I asked vet about worming when one is not sure of animals history " "When in doubt with rescued animals, she told me always, always take precautions and do it"

 

[freemotion]

People are pathetic, aren't they? And she owns a feed store, with everything she needed to take care of them available to her at wholesale....GRRRRR!!! And to ask $250! She should've given YOU $250 in store credit for taking her shame off her hands.

Good for you for taking care of them. I am leaning towards ivermectin, since the eyes were pale pink, not white, though. I can get the cattle injectible at Tractor Supply, but have to buy a cow-size bottle! I will call around tomorrow and see if I can buy smaller amounts.

Chirpy, thanks for the links....thanks a lot (smiley sarcastic tone

) Scary pictures and brain-cell-exercising science......

I am leaning towards injections for all three, then herbals after for maintainance. Still open to ideas and opinions!

 

[sunnychooks]

I feel that there is no reason to worm unless the animals are infected. I have my goats and sheep stools checked periodically and have not had any problems with internal parasites. I never liked the idea of giving my animals (or myself, for that matter) any type of chemicals that were not necessary. That's why I've resorted to having the fecal tests done instead. Then if there is a problem, I will take care of it.
Just another opinion for you to consider.

 

[dirtdoctor]

We used to worm everything before winter.. them worms suck lots of heat making energy away from the critters. AS for Holistic or organic stuff. Our expereince is that lots of money went into teh animals and we never were sure like we are with Ivermectin etc... you can SEE the difference.... happy animals make better food.

 

[helmstead]

For those of you using herbal dewormers (and for that matter, cleaners:/)...I would love to see fecal results on your animals.

They don't work. Period.

Ivermec is safe for use in all stages of pregnancy. It is also effective against most classes of worms. I use no other class of dewormer on a pregnant doe, altho many people will say its safe after 45 days. I feel safer waiting until they've freshened and are open to go after liver flukes and tape worms.

The dewormer at TSC I assume is the pelleted goat wormer. It contains morantel tartrate - which at its highest dosage only has less than a 40% kill rate for the THREE classes of worms it is "effective" against. Useless. False sense of security.

For ease of administration, you can use the new-ish pelleted ivermectin, just remember to give it at 3-4x the dosage for your goat's weight.

 

[freemotion]

Quote:
Sooo..... I'm not sure if you are saying you use Ivomec during pregnancy, or only after.....or if you use another wormer for the liver flukes and tape worms only after freshening.

Also, where does one buy the new pelleted ivermectin, do you know if it is effective? I have given hundreds of injections over the years, just to horses and an occasional cat (lived in an area with no local vets, so our vets who would travel 60 miles taught me lots, and relied heavily on my eyes and instincts....with horses....no goats!) so I am comfortable with the idea of using injectible ivomec or whatever. Prefer oral with the fragile girl, though, less chance of reaction....but again, I am not used to dealing with goat systems. Opinions, please.



and yes, I would normally would do fecals, but I am 99.9% sure this girl is loaded from the conditions she came from....overcrowding, very little care at all, little knowledge on the previous owner's part. Less knowledge than mine, I mean. At least I am educating myself..... I will do fecals in the future, to check my program, once I have one! Meanwhile, I seriously doubt she has ever been wormed in her life.