Just changed to a raw meat....

[GD91]

My dogs eat raw chicken pieces almost every day, along with ground meat blends that include green tripe. I have a very close relationship with my dogs. My dogs lick me on the face, near and about my mouth frequently. I have never had any issue with any transmitted illness.

And certainly an abnormally high amount of fat can cause pancreatitis, in particular cooked fat.

This goes back to keeping it simple and as natural as possible. Dogs need the amount of fat that occurs naturally in animals. I don't need to know the percentages. I just need to feed whole pieces of meat and not add fat that is not normally there.

The ground meats that I feed I buy from a company and they are prepared for dogs and maintain certain average fat levels.

It really is not rocket science. Not so long ago, ALL dogs were fed scraps and etc in addition to whatever else they could scrounge for themselves. I feel that any fresh food in a dog's diet is better than none.

I do have a copious amount of real life experience feeding dogs a home constructed raw meat diet. My dogs are successful in the show and performance rings and they are blooming with good health and vitality. IMO a majority of dogs would benefit from more fresh food in their diets.

When I advise people about to undertake switching their dogs to raw food, I advise them to get the digestive support supplement, and to begin it 5 days before starting the raw food. In this way the dog's gut is primed with the proper flora to easily digest the new diet. I start dogs new to raw on a lower fat ground beef mix at first, or fresh ground turkey with puppies. Once they are stable and doing well on that, I will add in the organ meat mix, and finally whole chicken pieces. Every dog I have ever moved to raw adjusted well and really enjoyed their food.

It's not for everyone. It is VERY expensive, and it takes more time to acquire. You have to have a freezer, plan aheaad to have enough thawed, and it takes up a lot more room.

How long have you kept rottweilers then?

I love this breed, they truly are wonderful dogs to train & have around. Our rotty was poorly bred (As I wrote on the thread about the lady planning to breed her GSD.) by an irresponsible breeder. I know too many bad breeders in my town who just breed for profit thinking its a good idea & then end up giving the last of the pups away when the true cost of care for the ***** & pups comes into the bank account.

All those breeders start off with no money other than their benefits & the idea they'll make a quick buck selling their pets pups. It doesn't work out in costs because the pups are generally such poor quality "copies" of the breed with no papers or medical history & hence, no true value.

We have 2 dogs, both runts of the litter given to us by the same woman. The rotty I removed from her because she couldn't get rid of her because she was the runt. This woman hurled this pup out the back door against the fence at the age of 5 weeks & then hit it with a broom because it "knows not to poo in its cage, f*ckin' rat, I just want rid of it". So me and DH took it home. As the pup grew older she exhibited clear signs of severe hip dysplasia under the age of 12 months.

By the way the breeder was reported, but they know all the loopholes. When the RSPCA went around, there was no evidence of any puppies & they didn't check the mother. The breeder kept all the dogs locked in cages for about 22 hours a day apart from being let out for the loo. The RSPCA said it was fine as long as the cages were clean. So the RSPCA here are often powerless unless there are lots of puppies being bred or conditions are bad. Other than that, anything goes when you breed dogs here.

 

[GD91]

Update:

Day 7.

The dogs eating habits have changed. Rather than gorging down meals so fast they make themselves ill, they now take their sweet *** time over their meals & it takes them about 5-10 minutes to eat their meal.

Bones when provided raw or cooked, are no longer rushed either & both dogs now take great care on consuming them. Keesha, who previously gorged bones with great gulps, today picked the meat & calmly chewed down a raw bone before walking off & leaving the sharp pieces she had snapped off on the floor. I watched her & seen this myself.

Treo, when given her bone, chewed a bit off the end before also walking away & leaving her bone.

The cat grabbed his big raw bone with a growl & ran off with it!

A week ago both dogs would probably have tried to scoff these bones down whole & choked.

This to me signifies they are no longer feeling nutrient deficient. On the pet food (remember it was a PURE pet food diet, no scraps at all etc for 2 years) They would eat or rush meals until they were sick & eat the other animals poo, steal food if they could etc. All these behaviors have gone!

The cat has become more efficient at hunting & left 4 mice on the step last night. We also caught him finishing off a whole rat (small) & just saw as its back leg & tail vanished down his maw, again last night.

They still haven't touched the poo of the other animals.

The rottweilers hip dysplasia also has strangely improved. She can now go for moderate walks without yelping & limping once we return home.

The cat had had a limp for a long while which has also completely gone. We believe it was a sprain / torn muscle.

All the animals have been getting the same meals, raw & cooked.

All the animals have apparently better health & better vitality. Their teeth are certainly much better. Their gas is gone completely almost & doesn't really smell anyway when it does happen which is once or twice a day (that we know about!). Their breath is much better, no smell at all! Their stools are firm & dark brown, & they go once a day. Their peeing has increased a bit & also smells much less.

I don't think they will even go back on a pet food diet even if I offered one now

We have had no more sick, constipation or anything so far since previous updates either.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

I did tons of research before getting my first dog... I am glad I did as it turned out she has grain issues! We started on a low grain diet, no corn, soy or wheat. She still had loose, sloppy stools so we switched to a no grain commercial food. Now a days she gets bones of all sorts and simply eats them. She gets organ meats too, and sometimes just raw chunks of things... Like chicken wings rabbit skulls and other "inedibles" for us humans from butchering. My dogs snack on green beans, carrots, potatoes and squash occasionally. They are always getting compliments on their coats and health! So many people have told me not to feed bones whole or raw meat or my animals would have serious issues like diseases or choking and dying. I find that is not the case at all and they handle even cooked chicken bones with ease and seem happier and healthier for it! I am a huge fan of meat based no grain diets for dogs.

 

[SavageDestiny]

As someone who has fed raw to her dogs for nearly 8 years, and is a HUGE raw supporter... The diet your dogs are eating concerns me. I noticed in your last post you mentioned the dogs are eating cooked bones, which is a HUGE no-no. Cooked bones of any type should never be given for any reason.

I also notice you're feeding mostly boneless meat and bacon. Bacon is very fatty and not very nutritious. Pork is also harder for dogs to digest. The high fat content and not starting on chicken is probably why your Staffy is having diarrhea. It is recommended to start on an easy meat like chicken to avoid digestive upset. Further, I haven't really seen any organs mentioned. Organs should make up 10% of the diet, with 5% of it being liver and the other 5% things like kidney, pancreas, or spleen. Hearts, tripe, and gizzards do not count as organs in a raw diet. They count as nutrient dense muscle meat.

You are also supplementing with calcium powder, which is going to throw off their calcium/phosphorus ratio if they are eating bones. Calcium powder is also usually calcium carbonate, which is different than the calcium found in raw bone and lowers the acidity of the stomach, which poorly affects digestion. Even powdered bone meal usually is calcium carbonate.

If you choose to add vegetables, remember that dogs cannot break down the cellulose walls of plants. Veg/fruit needs to be pureed or steamed in order for dogs to access the nutrients. Dark green leafy vegetables are the best nutrient wise, but keep in mind that cruciferous vegetables like kale, broccoli, bok choy, cauliflower, etc. can negatively affect the thyroid if fed over long periods of time. Nightshade vegetables like beets, collard, parsley, spinach, white potatoes and Swiss chard are high in oxalic acid and can cause calcium depletion and kidney stones over time. Greens should always be rotated and fed sparingly.

You should really visit http://preymodelraw.com/page/articl...get-started-feeding-a-prey-model-raw-diet-r19

That is a guide on how to properly feed and transition into a raw diet. The diet you are feeding your dogs may work for now, but over time you will see the effects of nutrient deficiency.

 

[SunnySkies]

I am a vet, and I am actually treating a dog with chronic salmonellosis right now....a raw diet was given to the dog some weeks ago and was later found to be contaminated. Dog has been off ever since and tested positive for the bacteria.

Any diet can be contaminated, granted.

I always tell people interested in raw diets to see a veterinary nutritionist for guidance in designing a raw diet as 99% of the time, they are deficient over time.

 

[Redyre Rotties]

What nutritionist designs your diet? Your children's diet?

I'm sorry, but that viewpoint IMO does not hold water. It is not complicated.

It makes absolutely NO COMMON SENSE to think that any animal can lead an optimum life with no fresh food in the diet. No sense at all.

Dogs need meat with bones and about 10% organ meat to bloom.

Stay away from processed foods. Use whole grains on growing puppies, and pregnant and lactating females.

If a dog has a continued issue with Salmonella poisoning, there are things to blame far beyond a raw diet.

And again I speak from over 20 years hands on experience feeding a raw diet to a variety of dogs from 21 days of age to over 12 years of age.

 

[SunnySkies]

Well. A HUGE number of PEOPLE are nutritionally deficient and benefit when they take the advice of a nutritionist. And yes, my family has seen one, and even though we raise most of our own food, the nutritionist was very helpful and offered some unique ideas for helpin improve our diets in ways the kids would comply with.

So yes, I do recommend seeing a veterinary nutritionist when one is new and considering going raw.

I have had clients who have fed raw diets for years and years, and the nutritionist has always helped them tweak the diet to improve and correct deficiencies before they are a problem and has never said to not feed raw. So why do you have a problem with that?

Chronic salmenollosis is a problem in about 30% of normal dogs...30% shed it periodically. Period. But some dogs can and do get sick, and sometimes, we cannot find an underlying cause. My case is one of them.

Good luck, and there are several veterinary schools with good nutrition departments that can help you design a diet.

 

[GD91]

I just thought I'd pop back to update & my, I have posts.

The dogs are doing very well, I've had no internet to be on here until now.

They have been having chicken of course. I only mentioned bacon because, well, thats what I gave them. Once. And I removed the fat.

They have also been having their organ meats etc.

 

[GD91]

Well, I thought I'd update again, we actually had to switch the dogs to a home cooked diet instead of raw.

This wasn't because of any health issues, but because one of the dogs decided she preferred home cooked food & turned her nose up at a raw diet more & more in favor of home cooked. The other dog enjoys both & is still occasionally fed raw.

Neither dog will now eat dog food at all, so I donated our last 20kg sack of Wagg to a friend.

We also found the dog with the stomach issues enjoys a piece of bread or 2 with her dinner. But her stomach was reacting to white bread. However, DH started buying Hovis's 2 in 1 bread & both dogs love it with no more tummy issues. So Her stomach was reacting to only white bread.

My only issue is, without the massive grain bulk in pet food, both dogs are always acting like they are starving, despite full bowls of food being presented to them daily & despite the fact we are feeding the same amount of home cooked food as what we were dog food. After their meals they are always on the lookout for more. When we were feeding pet food, they would just behave sluggishly & bloated & full after meals for hours.

We are pleased with their progress so far, they are being fed a variety of foods, supplements are being provided & I invested in a few modern canine nutrition books written by nutritionists.

 

[ChocolateMouse]

Keep in mind that a wet home cooked food has a lot more water in it compared to a dry diet and so you have to consider what the nutrient values of the two are and if they are or are not comparable. Imagine how much mass and weight your dry food would be if you poured a cup of water over it and let it soak in! Compare that to what you are feeding now size and weight wise and you may see why they may still feel hungry.

Having said that, you could try using potatoes (even sweet potatoes) as a good filler, but in general if they are not loosing a lot of weight over the next month or four despite healthy exercise they should be fine and are probably just greedy.