The IMPORTED ENGLISH Orpington Thread

[rockinpaints]

I know this thread is for pictures but I wanted to add something to Walt's post. I don't think this is by any means a new "mess". I think as long as there have been pure bred chicks there have been back yard chickens. I believe also that it will always be an issue as in any animals, dogs, cats, horses etc, As long as it looks similar someone is going to call it purebred. Thus the need for APA, shows and Judges like you self.

I will say also years ago I had a gentleman come and buy several Black Orpingtons (American) to show. When he picked them up he said he would show them in the Orp category, then enter them in the Black Australorp category and use them where ever they placed best, he said they had been doing it that way for years...........Not a new mess

 

[fowlman01]

I know this thread is for pictures but I wanted to add something to Walt's post. I don't think this is by any means a new "mess". I think as long as there have been pure bred chicks there have been back yard chickens. I believe also that it will always be an issue as in any animals, dogs, cats, horses etc, As long as it looks similar someone is going to call it purebred. Thus the need for APA, shows and Judges like you self.

I will say also years ago I had a gentleman come and buy several Black Orpingtons (American) to show. When he picked them up he said he would show them in the Orp category, then enter them in the Black Australorp category and use them where ever they placed best, he said they had been doing it that way for years...........Not a new mess

No, it is not a new mess, but a much larger mess due to the amount of newbies and the prices people pay for chickens now. A judge that can't tell the difference from an Orp and an Australorp should not be judging.


Walt

 

[RedReiner]

 
I know this thread is for pictures but I wanted to add something to Walt's post.  I don't think this is by any means a new "mess".  I think as long as there have been pure bred chicks there have been back yard chickens.  I believe also that it will always be an issue as in any animals, dogs, cats, horses etc,  As long as it looks similar someone is going to call it purebred.  Thus the need for APA, shows and Judges like you self.

I will say also years ago I had a gentleman come and buy several Black Orpingtons (American) to show.  When he picked them up he said he would show them in the Orp category, then enter them in the Black Australorp category and use them where ever they placed best, he said they had been doing it that way for years...........Not a new mess

No, it is not a new mess, but a much larger mess due to the amount of newbies and the prices people pay for chickens now. A judge that can't tell the difference from an Orp and an Australorp should not be judging.


Walt

AGREED! its a big peeve of mine... making mutts and calling them orps because one parent was a bad example and then selling them to newbies, who then think its perfectly ok to crossbreed and still call them orps. ITS WRONG!! and making claims that one can get 3 different color patterns from some black birds with really bad red leakage is just flat out ripping people off. I am no genetics expert but pretty sure that gold laced and Jubilee are a different set of genes and they do not just pop out of solid black birds. They are being sold these days, on ebay and elsewhere, hec they even have a name to back up the claim. Some of the people I come across have been told certain things and they believe it, and nothing you say will make them believe otherwise. I really wish folks would do their homework before jumping in to the breeding pen with both feet, but we know that will not happen. I have not been breeding poultry my entire life and would consider myself new, There is so much to learn and I think one really never stops learning when breeding any animal. but there are those that have been at it a whole 6 months and they are out there criticizing everyone elses stock when in fact what they are doing with theirs is despicable to me. No matter the advice given...they already know everything so not much point in trying to point them in the right direction. the mutt breeders got to them first

 

[alibra]

In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with "mutt" chickens... But there's definitely something wrong with selling them as something they're not. Keep it real people! If you have orpington crosses, sell them as backyard orpington crosses!

 

[fowlman01]

AGREED! its a big peeve of mine... making mutts and calling them orps because one parent was a bad example and then selling them to newbies, who then think its perfectly ok to crossbreed and still call them orps. ITS WRONG!! and making claims that one can get 3 different color patterns from some black birds with really bad red leakage is just flat out ripping people off. I am no genetics expert but pretty sure that gold laced and Jubilee are a different set of genes and they do not just pop out of solid black birds. They are being sold these days, on ebay and elsewhere, hec they even have a name to back up the claim. Some of the people I come across have been told certain things and they believe it, and nothing you say will make them believe otherwise. I really wish folks would do their homework before jumping in to the breeding pen with both feet, but we know that will not happen. I have not been breeding poultry my entire life and would consider myself new, There is so much to learn and I think one really never stops learning when breeding any animal. but there are those that have been at it a whole 6 months and they are out there criticizing everyone elses stock when in fact what they are doing with theirs is despicable to me. No matter the advice given...they already know everything so not much point in trying to point them in the right direction. the mutt breeders got to them first

I have been raising and breeding chickens for 50 years. Now raising chickens and being an actual breeder are two different things. I did not start out as a breeder and I am still learning things so if someone who has less than 10 years in says they are a "breeder" I don't usually believe them. There are some exceptions, but very few. A breeder is someone that can breed to a standard. and have very consistent birds. What you see now is people crossing birds that don't have the Orp shape to get a "color" and they end up with all these cretin birds that are not only screwy colors, but they are not healthy birds. They have small abdominal cavities (easy to see once you know what to look for)...there should be no straight lines on the lower breast of an Orp as an example. The bottom end of an Orp is all curved lines.

The people you see on here selling X bred Orps for crazy amounts of money are simply ripping you off and they won't be around to help you after you end up with unhealthy birds. Not paying attention to the body of chickens always leads to small abdominal cavities that do not support the internal organs.....mutt or not, they are physical culls and that has nothing to do with pure bred or anything else other than poor breeding.

Walt

 

[rockinpaints]

I have been raising and breeding chickens for 50 years. Now raising chickens and being an actual breeder are two different things. I did not start out as a breeder and I am still learning things so if someone who has less than 10 years in says they are a "breeder" I don't usually believe them. There are some exceptions, but very few. A breeder is someone that can breed to a standard. and have very consistent birds. What you see now is people crossing birds that don't have the Orp shape to get a "color" and they end up with all these cretin birds that are not only screwy colors, but they are not healthy birds. They have small abdominal cavities (easy to see once you know what to look for)...there should be no straight lines on the lower breast of an Orp as an example. The bottom end of an Orp is all curved lines.

The people you see on here selling X bred Orps for crazy amounts of money are simply ripping you off and they won't be around to help you after you end up with unhealthy birds. Not paying attention to the body of chickens always leads to small abdominal cavities that do not support the internal organs.....mutt or not, they are physical culls and that has nothing to do with pure bred or anything else other than poor breeding.

Walt

All is a very good point and well taken. Thank you for all the input, it is always appreciated.

 

[RedReiner]

AGREED! its a big peeve of mine... making mutts and calling them orps because one parent was a bad example and then selling them to newbies, who then think its perfectly ok to crossbreed and still call them orps. ITS WRONG!! and making claims that one can get 3 different color patterns from some black birds with really bad red leakage is just flat out ripping people off. I am no genetics expert but pretty sure that gold laced and Jubilee are a different set of genes and they do not just pop out of solid black birds. They are being sold these days, on ebay and elsewhere, hec they even have a name to back up the claim. Some of the people I come across have been told certain things and they believe it, and nothing you say will make them believe otherwise. I really wish folks would do their homework before jumping in to the breeding pen with both feet, but we know that will not happen. I have not been breeding poultry my entire life and would consider myself new, There is so much to learn and I think one really never stops learning when breeding any animal. but there are those that have been at it a whole 6 months and they are out there criticizing everyone elses stock when in fact what they are doing with theirs is despicable to me. No matter the advice given...they already know everything so not much point in trying to point them in the right direction. the mutt breeders got to them first

I have been raising and breeding chickens for 50 years. Now raising chickens and being an actual breeder are two different things. I did not start out as a breeder and I am still learning things so if someone who has less than 10 years in says they are a "breeder" I don't usually believe them. There are some exceptions, but very few. A breeder is someone that can breed to a standard. and have very consistent birds. What you see now is people crossing birds that don't have the Orp shape to get a "color" and they end up with all these cretin birds that are not only screwy colors, but they are not healthy birds. They have small abdominal cavities (easy to see once you know what to look for)...there should be no straight lines on the lower breast of an Orp as an example. The bottom end of an Orp is all curved lines.

The people you see on here selling X bred Orps for crazy amounts of money are simply ripping you off and they won't be around to help you after you end up with unhealthy birds. Not paying attention to the body of chickens always leads to small abdominal cavities that do not support the internal organs.....mutt or not, they are physical culls and that has nothing to do with pure bred or anything else other than poor breeding.

Walt

again Agreed, although I know we will disagree on which standard we are breeding to lol. and individual interpretations of a standard will always vary. I do not deal with the mutt or crazy mixed up color folks. I actually keep a lineage on my birds, a pedigree of sorts if I possibly can. I try to remember who produced what, what I liked what I did not. I doubt that most people who sell those crazy half patterned birds or mutts cant tell you where they even came from. My birds might not be perfect or meet someone elses opinion of the standard but I try my best to match them up and produce a bird I think gets me closer. I am honest about my birds, probably to a fault. I do not and never will use another breed to try and fix something I dont like. You may or may not consider me a breeder due to my lack of years in the breed, but thats ok, I dont think its an insult to me or anyone else who does their best to produce an actual Orpington, whether its English type or American type. If we did not have the passion for the breed we would not continue on doing it the right way. I think the ones that make some mottled double barred red headed frizzled sizzled bird and call it an orp are the ones just experimenting and hoping someone will pay big bucks for it. Again, I may not have perfect birds but that is the point of breeding a breed, to learn, improve, preserve the actual breed.

and there is nothing wrong with mutt birds if thats what you like. I have no problem with that, its when they start marketing them as purebred orpingtons that gets to me, I find it sad that they cant work on the breed as a breed without throwing this or that in and then duping the newbies into buying them as orps.

 

[rockinpaints]

again Agreed, although I know we will disagree on which standard we are breeding to lol. and individual interpretations of a standard will always vary. I do not deal with the mutt or crazy mixed up color folks. I actually keep a lineage on my birds, a pedigree of sorts if I possibly can. I try to remember who produced what, what I liked what I did not. I doubt that most people who sell those crazy half patterned birds or mutts cant tell you where they even came from. My birds might not be perfect or meet someone elses opinion of the standard but I try my best to match them up and produce a bird I think gets me closer. I am honest about my birds, probably to a fault. I do not and never will use another breed to try and fix something I dont like. You may or may not consider me a breeder due to my lack of years in the breed, but thats ok, I dont think its an insult to me or anyone else who does their best to produce an actual Orpington, whether its English type or American type. If we did not have the passion for the breed we would not continue on doing it the right way. I think the ones that make some mottled double barred red headed frizzled sizzled bird and call it an orp are the ones just experimenting and hoping someone will pay big bucks for it. Again, I may not have perfect birds but that is the point of breeding a breed, to learn, improve, preserve the actual breed.

and there is nothing wrong with mutt birds if thats what you like. I have no problem with that, its when they start marketing them as purebred orpingtons that gets to me, I find it sad that they cant work on the breed as a breed without throwing this or that in and then duping the newbies into buying them as orps.

Well said,

 

[fowlman01]

again Agreed, although I know we will disagree on which standard we are breeding to lol. and individual interpretations of a standard will always vary. I do not deal with the mutt or crazy mixed up color folks. I actually keep a lineage on my birds, a pedigree of sorts if I possibly can. I try to remember who produced what, what I liked what I did not. I doubt that most people who sell those crazy half patterned birds or mutts cant tell you where they even came from. My birds might not be perfect or meet someone elses opinion of the standard but I try my best to match them up and produce a bird I think gets me closer. I am honest about my birds, probably to a fault. I do not and never will use another breed to try and fix something I dont like. You may or may not consider me a breeder due to my lack of years in the breed, but thats ok, I dont think its an insult to me or anyone else who does their best to produce an actual Orpington, whether its English type or American type. If we did not have the passion for the breed we would not continue on doing it the right way. I think the ones that make some mottled double barred red headed frizzled sizzled bird and call it an orp are the ones just experimenting and hoping someone will pay big bucks for it. Again, I may not have perfect birds but that is the point of breeding a breed, to learn, improve, preserve the actual breed.

and there is nothing wrong with mutt birds if thats what you like. I have no problem with that, its when they start marketing them as purebred orpingtons that gets to me, I find it sad that they cant work on the breed as a breed without throwing this or that in and then duping the newbies into buying them as orps.

I have some mutts here and I don't care what anyone does with their chickens. I have a problem with people knowing they are deceiving people to make money. I understand the title of this thread so when I post here I don't care what Standard is used. It can be a personal goal. They are your chickens.

Walt

 

[DeannaA]

I am definately not a breeder. Just a lover of chickens. I love the colors and personalities. I won't be selling anything as a pure breed. Too much stress, responsibility and pressure. Besides, I am way too much of a softie to cull the way that woud be necessary to produce quality breeding stock. This is a hobby. I love to share my chickens, sometimes getting a few dollars towards food but mostly I give them away to people that also love chickens.

I tried getting some pictures but they are in jail for now. Hard to get good pictures. I will post when I get some cross babies. I love surprises. I just hope I don't end up with all black chicks.

I was just using the chicken calculator and it looks like the chocolate to gold laced will be the best chicks.