To get a dog or not to get a dog....

[Lifetime chicken lover]

Ellochicken, I learned from a therapeutic dog trainer to bring him with me everyday to care for the chickens. I brought him out on a leash and he watched me feed and water the birds. Picked them up and showed him that they are part of the family. Then, I'd also bring him with me to lock the birds up in the evening.
I did this for about 2 months (everyday), but still did not feel I could totally trust him. Until we went away for a weekend. The person caring for the animals misunderstood my instructions and thought I said to let all the animals out together. Well, when we came home, both the dog and the birds were outside free-ranging together...I praised him to the hills for being such a good dog.
Since then, the only skirmishes we've ever had were when all the animals are standing around waiting for the last bite of my sandwich. I make sure everyone gets a little bit- but the dog always thinks he should get a few bites from the chickens' share.
It takes time and patience...and a lot of praise for the dog.
Good Luck!

 

[Ellochicken]

Ellochicken, I learned from a therapeutic dog trainer to bring him with me everyday to care for the chickens. I brought him out on a leash and he watched me feed and water the birds. Picked them up and showed him that they are part of the family. Then, I'd also bring him with me to lock the birds up in the evening.
I did this for about 2 months (everyday), but still did not feel I could totally trust him. Until we went away for a weekend. The person caring for the animals misunderstood my instructions and thought I said to let all the animals out together. Well, when we came home, both the dog and the birds were outside free-ranging together...I praised him to the hills for being such a good dog.
Since then, the only skirmishes we've ever had were when all the animals are standing around waiting for the last bite of my sandwich. I make sure everyone gets a little bit- but the dog always thinks he should get a few bites from the chickens' share.
It takes time and patience...and a lot of praise for the dog.
Good Luck!

That's awesome! Thank You So Much For That! But I tried to get my dog to become actually interested in my 5 hens, but he still doesn't take any notice. But my hen Dandy (Short for Dandelion) chases him around and tries to get him to play, It's really funny! And she is my brave hen, she attacked our neighbors cat when she was hiding in the bushes, about to attack my beloved Sunshine (She's my Avatar) and she flew right over her and attacked the cat. If it wasn't for her, I would only have 4 hens today. And when she was little, she attacked my indoor cat! She's my little daredevil chicken!
Well, thanks for the info Lifetime Chicken Lover!

-Ellochicken

 

[davefandbevf]

We have 16 buff orpington hens, have raised them since they were a couple of days old. They are 19 months old. The "girls" are free range on over 2 acres (we have about 3 acres). We had an older JRT male, he was introduced to them as chicks, didn't seem to care about them, went outside without bothering them, the "girls" would stalk him sometimes, lol. We ended up having to put him down because of health issues (14 1/2 yrs old) in July. Our house seems empty without one. We have had dogs as part of our family for the 25 years we have been married. We are looking for a dog and am wondering what breed would be best with the "girls". My husband wants to get a miniature Australian Shepherd, male, neutered (a puppy). Any thoughts?? At some point, I want to get a small dog also, possibly a chihuahua.
Thanks so much!

 

[davefandbevf]

referring back to my earlier post, thinking about a Mini Australian Shepherd. Any thoughts on this breed?

 

[GuppyTJ]

Ellochicken, I learned from a therapeutic dog trainer to bring him with me everyday to care for the chickens. I brought him out on a leash and he watched me feed and water the birds. Picked them up and showed him that they are part of the family. Then, I'd also bring him with me to lock the birds up in the evening.
I did this for about 2 months (everyday), but still did not feel I could totally trust him. Until we went away for a weekend. The person caring for the animals misunderstood my instructions and thought I said to let all the animals out together. Well, when we came home, both the dog and the birds were outside free-ranging together...I praised him to the hills for being such a good dog.
Since then, the only skirmishes we've ever had were when all the animals are standing around waiting for the last bite of my sandwich. I make sure everyone gets a little bit- but the dog always thinks he should get a few bites from the chickens' share.
It takes time and patience...and a lot of praise for the dog.
Good Luck!

It is such a blessing to have a dog that gets along so well with your chickens! Good for you and well done!

I keep a blog and wrote an article on training my 2 dogs to get along with my chickens. One of the 2 dogs is a natural predator/killer and he's also blind so he was especially challenging to train to not only not hurt the chickens but to actually protect them.

http://www.littlewolf.org/preserve/dogs-and-chickens-harmony-and-predator-protection/

However, one thing you mentioned that I continue to be careful of is food. Food is a source of normal conflict in the animal kingdom because it often represents survival. Back before dogs and chickens were domesticated, both had to struggle to find food in order to survive. And in any conflict between dogs and chickens over food, the dog will inevitably win. In fact, he might be reminded that the chicken is itself, food! After all, dogs are predators, chickens are prey.

So, I am careful to when it comes to dogs, chickens and food. The chickens have their food and the dogs are not to eat it. If I'm feeding the chickens scraps, the dogs are trained to stay a healthy distance away. When I feed the dogs treats, I do it away from the chickens. If the chickens come near (and they do) when I'm giving the dogs something to eat, I try to finish quickly and make sure there is no food dropped on the ground where the chicken might try to grab it from the dog.

I'm not saying anything bad WILL happen when dogs, chickens and food mix but I am saying it is an extremely high risk endevour in general. Every dog and every chicken is different but I would be cautious about testing this most basic instinct when it comes to mixing food, predators and prey.

Hope this helps,
Guppy

 

[cabot]

My JRT has been around the chickens for 3 years now. Wouldn't guard them but never cases ... Sometimes I think he thinks he is a chicken.. The rooster even tolerates him well

 

[GuppyTJ]

My JRT has been around the chickens for 3 years now. Wouldn't guard them but never cases ... Sometimes I think he thinks he is a chicken.. The rooster even tolerates him well

Guppy

 

[centrarchid]

At this point I say definitively my hunting dogs do in fact guard as a function of the presence of chickens. A great deal of my dogs' predator-aggressive activity is in response to alarm produced by chickens. The dogs have become very adept at interpreting the chickens alarms and respond appropriately. This all started with dogs simply defending location followed by learning chickens are very informative observers.

 

[CAjerseychick]

We dont have as many chickens as some (14 roam on 2 acres) but they dont really seem to alarm call very much. Its mostly our dog pack that does the monitoring, and as some have mentioned, they guard the space (dont allow intruders and like to hunt vermin- vermin that eat chickens coincendatally) not the chickens- my thoughts on various herding breeds is, unless that is your breed, its not necessary to have that much energy and drive and herding talent for chicken guarding. All you need is a dog with an instinct to sound the alarm and watch over your Homestead (2 or 20 acres) and run off predators.
Have a very high energy, demanding giant schnauzer, and a fairly low energy Bernese mt dog and Pyr- Anatolian puppy that all perform quite well in this regard.

 

[GuppyTJ]

At this point I say definitively my hunting dogs do in fact guard as a function of the presence of chickens. A great deal of my dogs' predator-aggressive activity is in response to alarm produced by chickens. The dogs have become very adept at interpreting the chickens alarms and respond appropriately. This all started with dogs simply defending location followed by learning chickens are very informative observers.

Interesting point and subtle too. I would say my dogs do NOT pay attention to chicken alarms but I need to pay more attention to verify. Like I said, very subtle. What I believe is happening (again, need to verify) is that my dogs smell the predators long before the chickens have a clue that the predator is around so the chickens have never sounded a real alarm. The rooster does sound the alarm pretty frequently but it's never for anything real. Usually, he's alerting for a potential predator, like a crow or in fact, one of my dogs! He's just doing his job and well, albeit cautiously. But to my knowledge, no predator has ever gotten past the dog's noses or ears to cause the chickens to have reason to alert.

And as always... I caveat all of this in my mind with "up to this point." Up to this point, whatever my dogs and I am doing, has worked to keep the predators away. I hear coyotes nearly every night very close to or on my land, even up near the barn, yip, yip, yipping. My dogs (especially the sighted beagle mutt) clear the area in the morning for me. She really does a good job, barking and running off anything in the area. She'll do this again probably 1-2 more times during the day and every evening. It's the gaps between these times that worry me. And her running up in the woods on a barking jag by herself. She's a good dog too, coming when she's called. After even I get tired of her barking, I'll call her back and she's pretty good about coming.

But... all this said, Cenrachid, have you ever seen one of those livestock guardian dog videos? It's so different to watch those dogs in action vs. my own dogs. Those dogs station themselves between the predator and the livestock. Those dogs glance back at the livestock to make sure they're safe. They have it very clear in their minds that they are protecting that flock or herd. If a predator does try to get one of the livestock, the dog pushes the predator back while trying to fight it. It's not as much (or at all?) about protecting territory or location. It's just fundamentally different. Which is why it was such an "aha" moment for me personally.

I'm still not sure what I need/want in my next dog. And I'm grappling with it. The downside to a true LGD is that they are bonded with the animals, less so with you. They are not pets so much as they are working dogs. Today, our dogs go hiking with us, live in our house, are pretty much part of our family. A LGD is part of the family of the livestock. And, if your LGD stays with the flock/herd at night, they bark ALL night so you have to decide if you can put up with that.

Certainly, I bet there are degrees and a spectrum of ranges between a full fledged LGD and a pet dog that runs off predators. I don't know though, how you get a dog to bond with livestock so much so that he WANTS to stay with them and is happiest when with his flock/herd and still want to be with the humans and other dogs in the family. It seems like it's probably more of an either or situation. Either the dog wants to be with the chickens because that's his pack or he wants to be with the family because that's his pack. I don't know if there is a place in the middle that still achieves the objectives of a dog that stays with and actively defends the livestock.

Anyway.... just thinking outloud. I joined the LGD Facebook group so I can try to ask these questions there.

Guppy