Too much protein

[saladin]

As long as they are doing well then don't worry about it. saladin

 

[B'villechicken]

Quote:
Thanks.

 

[saladin]

Quote:
Please, the next time you quote me actually look at what I wrote!

Games and Orientals. These are NOT light breeds; particularly the Orientals!

Where in the world do you think the meat in the dual (not duel)purpose breeds came from?

My Games average between 6 and 7 lbs. The Orientals: Asils 7-13lbs., Malays 10-12 lbs., and Shamos 10-12lbs.

saladin

 

[NYREDS]

Quote:
Again, I feed a 22% protein feed. Have done so for years with many breeds including Large Fowl Modern & Old English Games as well as Malays. I have never experienced any fertility problems.

 

[Wifezilla]

"Beneficial nutrients, such as protein, can reach toxic levels and cause animals to stop grazing before full. This has been seen in grazing dairy herds where protein was overfed in the barn. The cows would only graze a short time, and when protein levels from high quality pasture reached toxic levels, pasture DMI would drop off. This has caused losses in milk production, leading to a cycle of feeding more stored forage in the barn. This only further restricts DMI from pasture, and eventually all the benefits of pasturing are lost."
http://www.extension.org/article/19660
I disagree with the "toxic protein" comment. It isn't the protein itself that is toxic, but the lack of other macronutrients that is a problem (see rabbit starvation in humans).

The same thing happens with humans... higher protein levels means less overall food consumption.
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-384411.html
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/82/1/1
http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/23/5/373

Same thing happens with cats and dogs.

Again, I feed a 22% protein feed. Have done so for years with many breeds including Large Fowl Modern & Old English Games as well as Malays. I have never experienced any fertility problems.

Makes perfect sense to me. I get weird looks at the feed store when I buy game bird feed and they know I have ducks, but I do not have the issues with my ducks that people feeding them flock raiser do (holes in foot webbing, overall leg weakness, prone to injury, etc..). I got 2 ducks from someone who had their ducks on flock raiser until we traced their issues to the feed. She no longer uses it as far as I know.​

 

[Germaine_11.20]

Ok this is both off and on subject. The questions I ask are not meant to cause offense, I am trying to learn and understand.

During the summer my cats eat the grasshoppers out here like crazy. They become very thin. I feed them plenty of choice cat food.
When I asked the vet why he said it was all the extra protein that they are getting. Doesn't quite make sense to me but could and does this affect chickens that way?
Has anyone ever done a side by side comparison of the same breed fed one level of protein compared to a higher level and then followed the results for longevity and illness in the birds?
How and why does the extra protein affect fertility?

Wifezilla, would the cats be thin because they don't eat as much cat food which has fat in it? Hmmm I think I answered it myself LOL!

 

[NYREDS]

I have not done a side by side study but anecdotally I am certain that my birds do better now with their 22% protein feed than they did when I fed a more conventional starter-grower-layer program. In fact I wish I could say I thought of the one feed program myself but I didn't, I learned it from another vert successful breeder. Since then have talked with several other people who do the same thing for the same reasons.
The talk of the dangers of excessive protein is interesting I suppose but in this thread what ahs been talked about is protein in the 20-22% range. I don't think there's anything to suggest that protein in this range would be problematic.
When the Atkins Diet was first introduced there were all sorts of dire warnings about it's inevitable negative consequences. Long term studies have indicated the opposite. People's kidneys handled the extra protein just fine.

 

[Teach97]

The problems associated with cattle have to do with their different digestive system. Too high of a protein content will cause the microbes to reproduce too quickly and you will have bloat issues. This can lead to death easily.

Types of protein (read as nitrogen) can also lead to issues. Many creatures cannot handle specific forms. Horses are usually thought of here in reference to...um...well...brain gas release

Protein is not typically an issue with creatures that have systems designed to digest higher protein feeds...especially when fed as part of a balanced diet...correct vitamins and such.

 

[Germaine_11.20]

OK here is another thought on the subject. When the chickens free range there is really no control over their protein levels. They are going to eat bugs, worms, grasshoppers ect... they must be made for this or I would guess that they wouldn't eat them?
You don't see horses or cows eating grasshoppers, bugs and worms.
As far as kidneys go--lots of water and never run out.

I guess it is a personal preference based on experience. The only way to know is to try different %'s with different breeds and watch the results.

 

[Wynette]

if you're still having feather plucking issues, it's most likely due to overcrowding (that's typically the biggest reason for feather plucking). It's tough this time of year to keep them entertained, because they often spend so much time inside rather than venturing out. You can give them things to keep them busy, such as a Purina Flock Block, inside their enclosure; also, hang a head of cabbage or stuff a suet feeder with nutritious goodies such as dark, leafy greens; they have to work at getting them out, and it entertains their little minds and is often all it takes to get them to quit feather plucking. GOOD LUCK!