Trip to feed store leads to political arguement!

[punk-a-doodle]

I have yet to see someone in this thread say that all wealthy people are full of sin/are lazy/greedy/etc. Please point that out though, and I'd be more than happy to wave a finger.

 

[hemet dennis]

I am. There is no disgrace in being poor; the disgrace is in staying that way. People have to reassess their situation and adapt. One cannot sit around the rest of their life waiting for a factory to re open or for a job to return from overseas. It is not going to happen. They have to move on with their lives.

Unemployment and food stamps is not a career.

 

[RHRanch]

I have yet to see someone in this thread say that all wealthy people are full of sin/are lazy/greedy/etc. Please point that out though, and I'd be more than happy to wave a finger.

There has been however a lot of generalizations characterizing poor people as: alcoholics, drug users, system abusers, lazy, unambitious and not trying hard enough.... Of course, that's okay because it is so obviously true because a few people that the individuals have met are poor and some of these things, very scientific, not anecdotal at all..... No way we should look at bodies of scientific research into poverty and it's causes, even though they are documented, complex and multifaceted. let's just stick to maligning poor people in general, easier for people who just want to live in a black and white world.... (AKA: Fantasyland)

 

[RunningRabbit]

I have yet to see someone in this thread say that all wealthy people are full of sin/are lazy/greedy/etc. Please point that out though, and I'd be more than happy to wave a finger.

You and me both.

From my poor upbringing, I can tell you that the generalizations made about me were terrible. I don't smoke, take illegal or even prescription drugs, am not popping out child after child so I can get that sweet government cheese. I've never stolen a thing in my life, either.

But I apparently did all that and more because my family didn't bring in more than $20,000 a year.

Now a few people I went to school with came from "affluent families". No matter what they did, be it bullying others, physically assaulting other students, lying, cheating, stealing, drug abusing and such, were rarely, if ever labeled as guilty for any of it.

Money talks in my town. If you have it, you're right no matter what. If you don't? You're a lazy scumbag who moonlights as a prostitute and sells pot out of your car.

 

[hemet dennis]

There has been however a lot of generalizations characterizing poor people as: alcoholics, drug users, system abusers, lazy, unambitious and not trying hard enough.... Of course, that's okay because it is so obviously true because a few people that the individuals have met are poor and some of these things, very scientific, not anecdotal at all..... No way we should look at bodies of scientific research into poverty and it's causes, even though they are documented, complex and multifaceted. let's just stick to maligning poor people in general, easier for people who just want to live in a black and white world.... (AKA: Fantasyland)

Anyone that says all rich people are greedy or all poor people are lazy is stupid. And anyone that says no rich people are greedy and no poor people are lazy is just as stupid.
But do you think there are people that should get welfare for life ? And I'm not talking about disabled as there's other programs for them.

 

[redhen]

Its goes both ways..you are no better if you make generalizations about the rich.

 

[RHRanch]

Anyone that says all rich people are greedy or all poor people are lazy is stupid. And anyone that says no rich people are greedy and no poor people are lazy is just as stupid.
But do you think there are people that should get welfare for life ? And I'm not talking about disabled as there's other programs for them.

If you look into welfare, most people only use it for a short time period and get off of it. If welfare was less punitive and more individualized, more people could reduce their dependence on it and probably get off it faster. For example, many people who need welfare because of extreme life circumstances want to work, but can't find jobs which provide them enough hours or income to cover living expenses entirely, so people don't work at all in this case because they know the assistance they need to keep a roof over their heads will stop. What we should be doing is providing a step down system with mandatory work for able bodied people who don't have tiny children that need care. Unless we give daycare money, because a lot of times daycare costs more than a person can make at an entry level or part time job. I think few people are "welfare for life" recipients, and I think few people would say that non-disabled or mentally ill people should get "welfare for life". What is just as absurd as promoting "welfare for life" is prompting the end of welfare, as it serves a few very important societal and social purposes.

 

[RHRanch]

You and me both.

From my poor upbringing, I can tell you that the generalizations made about me were terrible. I don't smoke, take illegal or even prescription drugs, am not popping out child after child so I can get that sweet government cheese. I've never stolen a thing in my life, either.

But I apparently did all that and more because my family didn't bring in more than $20,000 a year.

Now a few people I went to school with came from "affluent families". No matter what they did, be it bullying others, physically assaulting other students, lying, cheating, stealing, drug abusing and such, were rarely, if ever labeled as guilty for any of it.

Money talks in my town. If you have it, you're right no matter what. If you don't? You're a lazy scumbag who moonlights as a prostitute and sells pot out of your car.

You make a good point, money is an insulating factor, making it less likely that your behavior will be attributed to your life status. Poor people are often characterized as poor because of their deviant behavior and rich people's deviant behavior is not attributed to their status as "wealthy" as often.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

RHR, I used to fairly fully live in that world of black and white. It brought me a lot of false security that felt like very real security at the time! Anecdotes used to be my research, and they were really nice in that I could choose to share or withhold them, or alter them to fit whatever I needed to be right at the time. Can't say everyone doesn't occasionally do that, but that used to be my deeply set and ingrained pattern. Facts and not always having the answer or grasp of a subject were rude awakenings, and I have many people to thank for that increased range of vision. Basically, I definitely understand the allure of black and white vision for some, as it used to be all I knew myself.

Runningrabbit, I am so happy that things sound like they are getting better for you! So sorry that you grew up with those sorts of generalizations. It is hard enough dealing with them as an adult...having those sorts of things thrown at you while still growing and developing can carry on into adulthood in some extremely damaging ways. I am lucky in that I grew up in a lot of different places so was exposed to views on class and poverty/wealth that varied quite widely. In some places, wealth had the social insulating favor you and RHR discussed. In some, people were more likely to pay attention to what someone better off was doing and to find fault in them. I only recently began seeing such a laser focus on poverty=negative individual traits. I am not sure if it is due to factors on my end, or if there has been a general increase in this view. From the sound of it, it is nothing new to you at least Runningrabbit!

 

[chickened]

I would agree that some people just do not get a break and that goes for the rich and the poor. I am by no means rich but I am not poor either but did come from a dirt poor family that really never got out of the Great Depression. In my own case I have a highschool education and through hard work and desire to not be broke have managed to get by. I had individuals that helped me along the way and the government has helped also but my differences are that I worked for every penny I have, it was not easy in fact sometimes it downright sucked but I was always figuring a way to make work easier and make more money but was not whining, complaining or telling anyone who would listen how unfair life is it just seemed pointless and useless. Oh and I was also accountable for my decisions however good or bad they were.