Wasting away - help needed urgently

[tjwaynne]

I am at a loss...and just don't know what to do now.

We have a grown bourbon red hen turkey that has the following symptoms...

She was laying eggs until about a week or so ago. I didn't notice any egg binding or prolapse that needed treatment during this time.

We first noticed a full crop that would not empty. It is mushy and I cannot feel any solid material inside.
She has a croupy voice and sometimes raspy breathing. This I assume is being caused by the backup of her crop.
We have noticed she has mucous coming out of her vent...and nothing else.
She has lost a LOT of weight since she is not digesting anything.
Her one eye is partially closed and the wing on that side is droopy. (The other eye and wing look normal).
Her legs and around her beak have gotten a lot redder than usual.
She wants to drink a ton of water, but this only fills up her crop to where she is "vomiting" out the contents of her crop.
And most recently a yellow hard mass directly above her vent has developed - this only happened in the last day or two.

I was treating for a sour crop, and the only thing this improved was the smell of her "vomit".

I am also giving her sub Q fluids twice a day.

Other than this, I'm not sure what to do at this point. Every time I think I have the issue diagnosed, she seems to get a new symptom that just doesn't fit. Can anyone help? I am at a loss and really don't want to keep trying to save her if it's hopeless.

Thanks so much!

 

[luckysamara199]

I almost teared up reading this I can’t imagine how she feels. I’m not a turkey expert but I think it might be gapeworms. I am currently treating my chickens with gapeworm treatment, their symptoms were gasping for air, hizzing, not eating well and they would stretch out their necks. I’ll give you the name of the gapeworm treatment, it doesn’t only help with gapeworm but it also helps kill other parasites that might’ve caused your turkey to be this way. You will find this treatment on Amazon. The name is: Verm-x Liquid Poultry & Fowl internal Parasite 250ml. It is 35$, it’s a bit expensive but it works well. I really hope your turkey gets better! Good luck

 

[Sierra G]

Try th link to see if anything sounds like something your bird might have gotten in to. https://opensanctuary.org/article/things-that-are-toxic-to-turkeys/#plants-that-are-toxic-to-turkeys

 

[tjwaynne]

I almost teared up reading this I can’t imagine how she feels. I’m not a turkey expert but I think it might be gapeworms. I am currently treating my chickens with gapeworm treatment, their symptoms were gasping for air, hizzing, not eating well and they would stretch out their necks. I’ll give you the name of the gapeworm treatment, it doesn’t only help with gapeworm but it also helps kill other parasites that might’ve caused your turkey to be this way. You will find this treatment on Amazon. The name is: Verm-x Liquid Poultry & Fowl internal Parasite 250ml. It is 35$, it’s a bit expensive but it works well. I really hope your turkey gets better! Good luck

Yes. I know. This is whole situation is horrible...especially for our hen. I treated with fenbendazole this morning, but I assume that if this is gapeworms that the worms are further down the track than her crop...and nothing is really getting past her crop...so not sure how effective this treatment will be. Thank you for your suggestion and compassion.

 

[tjwaynne]

Try th link to see if anything sounds like something your bird might have gotten in to. https://opensanctuary.org/article/things-that-are-toxic-to-turkeys/#plants-that-are-toxic-to-turkeys

Thank you for the link. I don't think she got into anything that was toxic. And once again when I look at the symptoms it seems like there is nothing that fits all of the symptoms I am seeing. Thank you so much for the reply. I have bookmarked the link you included for future reference.

 

[Sierra G]

Thank you for the link. I don't think she got into anything that was toxic.

There are lots of possible toxins out there and they're easier for your birds to get into than you might think. You can't watch them 24/7 which is about how often they're typically ready to eat something. As for nothing matching all the symptoms, reviewing the list will give you a baseline for what some possible symptoms are. If you look at lead poisoning for example it can account for many of them, including the droopy wing. Diagnosing the problem is about eliminating everything that's impossible and then considering how possible the remaining options are.

 

[Sierra G]

What can you tell us about her environment? Does she free range or have an enclosure? How close are your neighbors? How likely is it that something like plastic wrap or a balloon could blow into the yard? How long has the property been lived on and, if she can get to grass, how is the grass cared for?

What was her feed like when she was eating and did she get any treats?

And can you post a picture of her standing?

Edit: since your first noticed issue was the crop, did you read this
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...w-to-know-which-one-youre-dealing-with.73607/

 

[tjwaynne]

What can you tell us about her environment? Does she free range or have an enclosure? How close are your neighbors? How likely is it that something like plastic wrap or a balloon could blow into the yard? How long has the property been lived on and, if she can get to grass, how is the grass cared for?

What was her feed like when she was eating and did she get any treats?

And can you post a picture of her standing?

Edit: since your first noticed issue was the crop, did you read this
https://www.backyardchickens.com/ar...w-to-know-which-one-youre-dealing-with.73607/

She is in an enclosure at all times. The nearest neighbors are at least 2 acres away. (Although that very neighbor does burn garbage ALL THE TIME and the smoke usually blows right towards our turkey enclosure. There is good ventilation in there though). I guess it's possible plastic wrap or a balloon could have blown into the enclosure at some point, but we are pretty rural and don't see much litter blowing around. We have lived on the property ourselves for 20 years and it was lived on before that.

Now that is a great point with the grass. Occasionally, we have fed her small blades of grass picked from the yard. (We do have other turkeys that are free range, and eating the same grass with no issues).

She does not get any treats and eats pellets. And we did recently try a new brand, but again, all the turkeys are getting that new brand. But I guess it could affect each turkey differently.

I will have to post a picture when I get home from work.

And I did read that article about sour crop versus crop impaction. I definitely can't feel anything solid in her crop...it's really mushy. Which is why I was originally treating for sour crop. (It also had an odor). I did buy the supplies to try to surgically remove an impaction, but if this is the case, I feel like this would be too far down her digestive system for me to be of any assistance.

I did start her on a dose of Amoxicillin yesterday evening. (Which is totally what you are NOT supposed to do for a sour crop). However, I didn't know what else to try. She did have her first real poop (brown diarrhea) this morning, so something got through. Not sure if this was just a fluke or a good sign that the amoxicillin is working? She still has a full crop though...and massaging it does not help it move along.

Thanks so much for your help!!

 

[Sierra G]

It doesn't need to be plastic clogging things up, but that's still one possibility. Microorganisms like yeasts, fungus, and bacteria can grow in her digestive track. There are beneficial bacteria that she needs to digest her food. Sometimes harmful bacteria outgrown the beneficial bacteria and release byproducts that are toxins and you get different illnesses depending on the type of bacteria. Ideally you target these with medication that attacks a specific family of bacteria. But sometimes broad spectrum antibiotics are needed because there is no specific treatment. If you've ever had a sourdough starter you had to throw out because it went bad you understand the concept.

The other problem you can have with foreign microorganisms is that some don't release toxins, but they do use up the resources the good bacteria need or by products of the good bacteria the turkey needs. If you have a beneficial bacteria that converts starches to sugars you lose the benefit if another comes along that uses up the sugars. And one of the resources that can get taken up is space. You can have colonies of bacteria or other organisms that grow in the gut and create big clumps of curdlike bacteria that aren't toxic, but can plug things up just being there.

It's sounds like that might be what you have here and the Amoxicillin might have killed enough bacteria to get thing moving again. You may see more improvement tonight. Whether or not you decide to give more antibiotics you might want to consider giving some probiotics. Probiotics help re-establish the good bacteria the bad bacteria have been poisoning or crowding out. in-VIGOR-ate works well for chickens and says it's good for turkeys too. Tractor supply makes one that's "multispecies", but it doesn't seem to work as well as the others and isn't that much cheaper. I suppose the decision will depend on what you can find locally.

The other thing to consider is that you might have multiple things happening. The crop issue could have disrupted things in the gut and created good conditions for an opportunistic infection there. So if your antibiotics are addressing that problem there may still be a yeast infection in the crop which might need to be treated separately.

 

[tjwaynne]

It doesn't need to be plastic clogging things up, but that's still one possibility. Microorganisms like yeasts, fungus, and bacteria can grow in her digestive track. There are beneficial bacteria that she needs to digest her food. Sometimes harmful bacteria outgrown the beneficial bacteria and release byproducts that are toxins and you get different illnesses depending on the type of bacteria. Ideally you target these with medication that attacks a specific family of bacteria. But sometimes broad spectrum antibiotics are needed because there is no specific treatment. If you've ever had a sourdough starter you had to throw out because it went bad you understand the concept.

The other problem you can have with foreign microorganisms is that some don't release toxins, but they do use up the resources the good bacteria need or by products of the good bacteria the turkey needs. If you have a beneficial bacteria that converts starches to sugars you lose the benefit if another comes along that uses up the sugars. And one of the resources that can get taken up is space. You can have colonies of bacteria or other organisms that grow in the gut and create big clumps of curdlike bacteria that aren't toxic, but can plug things up just being there.

It's sounds like that might be what you have here and the Amoxicillin might have killed enough bacteria to get thing moving again. You may see more improvement tonight. Whether or not you decide to give more antibiotics you might want to consider giving some probiotics. Probiotics help re-establish the good bacteria the bad bacteria have been poisoning or crowding out. in-VIGOR-ate works well for chickens and says it's good for turkeys too. Tractor supply makes one that's "multispecies", but it doesn't seem to work as well as the others and isn't that much cheaper. I suppose the decision will depend on what you can find locally.

The other thing to consider is that you might have multiple things happening. The crop issue could have disrupted things in the gut and created good conditions for an opportunistic infection there. So if your antibiotics are addressing that problem there may still be a yeast infection in the crop which might need to be treated separately.

Thank you! I am going to continue to treat with the antibiotic and will continue to treat for yeast as well. I was wondering if you could provide the actual name of the product from tractor supply you were referring to? The link takes me to an error page on TSC website...probably an issue on my end. I will look for the other one you mentioned, but we don't have a lot of shopping options around here...but we do have a TSC.

I wish I knew more about turkeys medical issues. We currently are incubating some eggs, and I am thinking about vaccinating them. I need to look into what is available. But I'm sure more issues will creep up in the future, and after all this with this hen, and realizing how much I need to learn, scares me now.