What are next steps w/9wo Great Pyrenees to protect poultry

[lcwmt]

Great post!!!
I'll paraphrase: Good behavior is its own reward for many dogs, esp working breeds.
Treat training can often reinforce things we two-leggeds are unaware of.
Get some puppy classes, they will teach *you* a lot about working with your dog.

 

[brainfog]

@Icwmt, thank you for the tips.

I fear that outside at night is NOT an option due to barking and my hope to not further bother neighbors. So if there is night barking - Kira will likely need to be inside somewhere. What would be the best option? The chicken door automatically opens at 7am, so she'd be outside from then until dark.

 

[Dr.Dale]

They guard at night by BARKING if they hear, see or smell something of concern.

This is definitely my experience so far. They bark a lot at night, but we are on 5.5 acres. I never discourage them from barking just because I can’t see the threat. But if the threat is a passing car or train then I do tell them to calm down, or if they aren’t even bothering to get up then I tell them to hush since they clearly don’t take it seriously.

 

[bruceha2000]

Yep, they do need to learn what is a threat and what is not. That is where an older dog is very useful, they speak the same language.

I fear that outside at night is NOT an option due to barking and my hope to not further bother neighbors.

I hate to be blunt but ... GPs bark, that is what they do. If they are in the house they will still bark and most likely try like the dickens to get outside where they can do their job of protecting. They can NOT protect anything when locked in the house. They know what they are supposed to do, as noted by someone earlier, it is trained into their "DNA".

 

[brainfog]

I don’t have a lot of expertise trying different approaches, but I definitely went slower than you are going.

Cool. Seems like I should slow down a bit and keep her out of the poultry yard - even on my rounds for a few weeks or more. The birds are used to taking care of themselves - against things that move like Kira, so her being so small - they go on the offensive. I'll keep her in the dog and people yard - which like yours borders the poultry yard.

Still have a lot of reading in your post - but I'll try and get up to speed there. One issue I need to resolve is socialization w/people and children I'm all for it - but the breeder let me to believe that they should only be part of the flock its guarding.

 

[brainfog]

Yep, they do need to learn what is a threat and what is not. That is where an older dog is very useful, they speak the same language.


I hate to be blunt but ... GPs bark, that is what they do. If they are in the house they will still bark and most likely try like the dickens to get outside where they can do their job of protecting. They can NOT protect anything when locked in the house. They know what they are supposed to do, as noted by someone earlier, it is trained into their "DNA".

The night threats are minimal - after 6 years I have a handle on it. Even daytime attacks by hawks aren't an issue - due to geese and roosters. However for the past months, we've had daytime attacks by fox and coyote on the fenced (~1 acre) free range flock and I've been unable to stop it. They jump the fence. I've lost plenty of chickens, and an adult goose and turkey. Protection during that day is the job for Kira.

As a dog in the house is not an option - I've hesitated getting any dog for years due to night barking problem. Recently added a detached shed/garage/barn with the poultry yard, and soon will have a new coup to keep the rooster quiet @ night. In either of these locations, when closed up, night barking won't be a problem for anyone. Outside at night the police will be here - possibly the first night.

 

[lcwmt]

Cool. Seems like I should slow down a bit and keep her out of the poultry yard - even on my rounds for a few weeks or more. The birds are used to taking care of themselves - against things that move like Kira, so her being so small - they go on the offensive. I'll keep her in the dog and people yard - which like yours borders the poultry yard.

Still have a lot of reading in your post - but I'll try and get up to speed there. One issue I need to resolve is socialization w/people and children I'm all for it - but the breeder let me to believe that they should only be part of the flock its guarding.

Yup. Slow down, train the dog. She's small *now*. That will change very quickly.

Around here the LGDs are NOT pets. They are livestock protectors only. That is what they are bred for, what they are wired for, what they do very well.
You have two opposing factors here: Guarding behaviors and Pet attributes.

If i read correctly, you live in a neighborhood and have children- that speaks against normal guarding behavior.
Pet behavior is very different from guarding behavior. Many a Collie or Border Collie has been relinquished because they guard or herd children. not their fault, just a mis-match in living circumstances.

Living in a neighborhood with concerns about the neighbors is a huge issue.
IMO, your dog will not be able to do its job in that situation. The dog will bark at intruders. That is natural, appropriate but not "neighborhood friendly".

How would you like the dog to do its job???
HOW is it supposed to alert or guard if it can not do what comes naturally?

Perhaps what you really need is "hardware" predator deterrents in the form of electric wiring etc????
I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, but the dog is a dog. If we choose a breed based on its skills, should we not honor that and let the dog Be???

 

[bruceha2000]

but the breeder let me to believe that they should only be part of the flock its guarding.

The breeder is wrong and is following long held "truths" that are anything but true. The guy that started that BS died last year but his bad advice will live on the internet forever, it is pretty much the first thing you will find when you Google LGDs.

The first time I met working LGDs I had heard only the "advice" that they were people unfriendly and dangerous to anyone they didn't know. WRONG! The woman had goats and at least 10 Anatolian Shepherd's Dogs including puppies. All but one wanted to get petted when we went in the pasture with her and that one had been harassed by kids recently so she kept her distance. Would I go into the pasture with those dogs without the owner after meeting them? HECK NO! My daughters and I were acceptable BECAUSE we were with the owner and they saw that she was OK with us being there. Without her, we would be a threat. One thing you will hear from working LGD owners is that if a stranger comes calling and the dog is put off by them, trust the dog. It senses things you don't. If the dog isn't unnecessarily worried, the stranger likely means no harm.

In Europe where this breed has been guarding flocks on hundreds of acres of unfenced land they will be out with the flock and move with it as it grazes; maybe the shepherd will be around maybe not. They aren't in a family or suburban or farm situation where there are people so they aren't acclimated to them. That is NOT the case with LGDs on fairly small fenced properties and by fairly small I mean 10 or 20 acres. Yes they can live out with their herd or flock, in fact a good LGD will INSIST on being out with their animals. They can't guard what they can't get to. But that doesn't mean they should not be well acquainted with their human family and the people the family allows on the property. When you go out to tend the animals, give the guarding GP some good ear or jowl scrubs (they love it). Don't take other dogs you may have into the LGD's pasture. You may be able to bring the LGD out of the pasture to visit with the other dogs but in its pasture, everything that isn't human family or flock/herd can be considered a threat. The dog knows its territory and WILL protect it.

They jump the fence.

Then so will the GP, they can scale a 5' fence no problem. You need hot wire running over the top of the fence. That will keep foxes from climbing in and the LGD from climbing out. I reiterate, the FIRST thing you need is a good perimeter fence that will keep the dog IN and the predators OUT. You should also have a low wire to discourage digging under the fence, inside and out.

 

[Dr.Dale]

That is where an older dog is very useful, they speak the same language.

Yes, we plan on getting another pup in a few years for exactly that reason. But you have to start somewhere, so right now it is just us and the young dogs.

The breeder is wrong and is following long held "truths" that are anything but true.

It is a very widespread myth. My father in law had a LGD decades ago and unfortunately was misled by the myth. He was amazed to see what great dogs they are when socialized well.

 

[Dr.Dale]

One issue I need to resolve is socialization w/people and children I'm all for it

On a 1 acre lot this will be essential. Your dog will not possibly be able to avoid humans, so social skills will be absolutely necessary.

If you had 10,000 acres and vast herds of sheep then maybe you could get away without socialization, but not in your situation.