another rant out of me re. people who dont get it
- Thread starter QuinnP
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Are you serious??? She actually laughed and said that? What a cold hearted person. My family is close with another family, the Matsumia's. The son and his wife had a child that was born premature and needed a heart transplant. He is one of the babies in the Loma Linda poster of children who had transplants there. Little Matthew was such a gift, so full of joy and never stopped smiling, even though he could never support himself and finally went to heaven when he was four years old. A person actually had the nerve to tell her she should not try for more children and put them through hell like that.
Well they did and her name is Corrine and she is a lovely 18 year old today. I can't believe the things some people have the nerve to say.
Are you serious??? She actually laughed and said that? What a cold hearted person. My family is close with another family, the Matsumia's. The son and his wife had a child that was born premature and needed a heart transplant. He is one of the babies in the Loma Linda poster of children who had transplants there. Little Matthew was such a gift, so full of joy and never stopped smiling, even though he could never support himself and finally went to heaven when he was four years old. A person actually had the nerve to tell her she should not try for more children and put them through hell like that.
Well they did and her name is Corrine and she is a lovely 18 year old today. I can't believe the things some people have the nerve to say.
Yeah, she actually laughed and said that. I don't know...she was a widow, never had children, and just had dogs. About 10 of them. I'm sorry for your friend's loss of precious Matthew. He sounds like a wonderful child for the 4 years they had him. I'm glad they went on to have a beautiful daughter. If people would just stop and think of how their words would sound from outside the situation, maybe they would be a little more compassionate. What would they want someone to say to them in that situation?
I lost my son 3 yrs ago so I do know how you feel. People are clueless and do not know the right thing to say. I try to ignore them. Very hard sometimes. Counselors are often clueless. I went to one that told me I just have had a crappy life. Can you believe that. I know my life is crappy. I was looking for coping skills ya know. I strongly recommend a support group for people that have had miscarriages. You will be surrounded by people that know exactly how you feel. You can talk about all your feelings openly. Guilt is normal to go through. Just don't stay there. In your mind you know its not your fault. You are just hurting so much now. That is normal. My heart and prayers are with you. If you ever want to talk just let me know. I am not a therapist but I do run a support group for parents.
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- Dec 13, 2010
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My husband and I lost our firstborn daughter at 7 months to crib death. I was totally unprepared for the LACK of understanding from most people who thought they understood. I had one close friend of my mother's tell me that I was "handling it with class" ... as if I gave a #$^ whether others thought my grieving was "classy" or not! I've known this woman all my life, and to this day I've never let her know how much her comment hurt and, yes, enraged me at the time. I later realized that, for her, that was a kindness, as she places high value on etiquette in all things. Looking at my pain from that perspective was "safe" for her.
I think the sheer rawness of grief at times like this is just too much for most people to really allow themselves to open up to the sufferer, no matter their intentions. Many can offer sympathy, but very few can tolerate the shared pain of true empathy, and most are left stuttering and stumbling in that awkward space between wanting to help you heal and wanting more to stay at a safe distance from the "contagion" of grief. Your pain is dangerous because, in another set of circumstances, it could be theirs. And naturally they think they should help you stop the pain ... most don't get that in a very real way you need it to ever heal. I know for me, as much as I hurt, I also in a way treasured my grief, as it felt like my last connection to Tana, and the depth of my pain validated the depth of my love for her. I NEEDED TO GRIEVE. The most helpful thing anyone did for me was to hold me and just let me cry, all the while telling me it was okay. Funny thing is, this person was the daughter of "Ms. Etiquette." I guess she's had her own share of "private" grieving in her day.
Anyway, what I'm trying so awkwardly to say is don't be surprised at how seemingly thoughtless some people's reaction to your pain will be... whether they realize it or not, at the same time they try to reach out they are also internally terrified to be that close to that level of grief. Some may truly empathize, but I've come to believe that grief is the most intimate and private experience we ever have, and therefore the one who has to love you and understand you the most right now is YOU. Accept others' overtures for what they are ... good intentioned and supportive but largely symbolic ... and give yourself all the time and space you need to grieve fully and move through your pain to a place of healing. Remind yourself at every opportunity that one of the things your pain validates is your humanity. It affirms your ability to love deeply and honestly, and that is the true dignity and value of the human condition.
I think the sheer rawness of grief at times like this is just too much for most people to really allow themselves to open up to the sufferer, no matter their intentions. Many can offer sympathy, but very few can tolerate the shared pain of true empathy, and most are left stuttering and stumbling in that awkward space between wanting to help you heal and wanting more to stay at a safe distance from the "contagion" of grief. Your pain is dangerous because, in another set of circumstances, it could be theirs. And naturally they think they should help you stop the pain ... most don't get that in a very real way you need it to ever heal. I know for me, as much as I hurt, I also in a way treasured my grief, as it felt like my last connection to Tana, and the depth of my pain validated the depth of my love for her. I NEEDED TO GRIEVE. The most helpful thing anyone did for me was to hold me and just let me cry, all the while telling me it was okay. Funny thing is, this person was the daughter of "Ms. Etiquette." I guess she's had her own share of "private" grieving in her day.
Anyway, what I'm trying so awkwardly to say is don't be surprised at how seemingly thoughtless some people's reaction to your pain will be... whether they realize it or not, at the same time they try to reach out they are also internally terrified to be that close to that level of grief. Some may truly empathize, but I've come to believe that grief is the most intimate and private experience we ever have, and therefore the one who has to love you and understand you the most right now is YOU. Accept others' overtures for what they are ... good intentioned and supportive but largely symbolic ... and give yourself all the time and space you need to grieve fully and move through your pain to a place of healing. Remind yourself at every opportunity that one of the things your pain validates is your humanity. It affirms your ability to love deeply and honestly, and that is the true dignity and value of the human condition.
- Jul 26, 2010
- 2,969
- 4
- 171
"That's okay, your sister doesn't need anymore children anyway." I never spoke to her again.
Under these circumstances, many people won't connect cause and effect - they won't realize WHY the person is no longer speaking to them.
The person who was hurt may not be able to bear speaking to the person again to explain the consequences of such a comment, but hopefully someone will tell them. Otherwise they won't ever learn the consequences of their actions.
I don't actually feel you had any obligation to tell the person what you're going to do and why, especially since that usually will open you up to MORE similar comments, 'Well it's TRUE!' or the classic response of the rude and insensitive, 'You're too sensitive'.
Once, in response to such a comment, I said, 'You are really a very sick individual', and the person laughed hysterically - so did most of thhe other people present. How can you deal with such a thing other than just walk away.
Years ago a friend of mine was proudly showing pictures of her new baby at work. One of the guys sauntered by and said, 'All small children should be killed'.
The new mother got the most enraged look on her face, but she didn't say a thing. She would never do a thing for that guy at work or speak to him again. The one who said that had his own problems - he was a cocaine and alcohol addict and it had made him have a very callous, sick view of the world. He tended to think of others as not as intelligent as he. When I was around him I was always reminded of 'Harry Lyme', Orson Welles' character in 'The Third Man'. He was selling diluted medications on the black market after WWII, and many people died or were permanently disabled due to his actions. At one point in the movie he and his friend are up on a tramway, and he looks down on the people and says, 'If anyone of those dots stopped moving down there, would you really feel any regret'?
That, honestly, was the point this guy had gotten to.
Weirdly enough, he was fired, went back to school and...became a nurse???!!! I often wondered how kind and sympathetic he would be to the patients - and how easily he could access drugs in the hospital pharmacy.
SO! I think people who say those things usually have some pretty serious problems -- and these problems are persistent, and generally don't have a really good cure rate. But I don't actually feel the person who is the object of their 'humor' has any obligation to try to 'help' them.
If the person chooses to, so be it, and I hope they tell the person clearly the consequences of their behavior. 'How very not funny - you just lost a friend - for ever, but perhaps you're too wrapped up in your own **** to care'.
It's tougher when it's a relative you can't avoid. I believe in keeping the family together and not bearing grudges and forgiveness and all that bla bla bla, but many times such comments are a part of a long term very repetitive pattern, and often the only solution is to remove oneself from the presence of the person.
For some reason, some relatives will choose to constantly attack one individual in a family, and there just isn't anything one can do. In my case, I reminded a family member of our mother, whom she thought was a very inferior and laughable individual, only having a GED and being 'ignorant' and a 'lower class person'. She ridiculed my mother's appearance, mannerisms, etc. At one point, she said on the phone to me, 'Oh my God, your voice sounds EXACTLY like Mother's'. There were many other comments over the years - that was kind of the last in a long, long line of 'em.
What exactly can anyone do about how one's voice sounds? Just stay away from such people. Family cohesion and forgiveness can only be taken so far. Everyone has to decide for themselves how much abuse they want to suck up in the name of 'keeping the family together'. I really do not believe in bearing a grudge, but at a point, it becomes enough.
Under these circumstances, many people won't connect cause and effect - they won't realize WHY the person is no longer speaking to them.
The person who was hurt may not be able to bear speaking to the person again to explain the consequences of such a comment, but hopefully someone will tell them. Otherwise they won't ever learn the consequences of their actions.
I don't actually feel you had any obligation to tell the person what you're going to do and why, especially since that usually will open you up to MORE similar comments, 'Well it's TRUE!' or the classic response of the rude and insensitive, 'You're too sensitive'.
Once, in response to such a comment, I said, 'You are really a very sick individual', and the person laughed hysterically - so did most of thhe other people present. How can you deal with such a thing other than just walk away.
Years ago a friend of mine was proudly showing pictures of her new baby at work. One of the guys sauntered by and said, 'All small children should be killed'.
The new mother got the most enraged look on her face, but she didn't say a thing. She would never do a thing for that guy at work or speak to him again. The one who said that had his own problems - he was a cocaine and alcohol addict and it had made him have a very callous, sick view of the world. He tended to think of others as not as intelligent as he. When I was around him I was always reminded of 'Harry Lyme', Orson Welles' character in 'The Third Man'. He was selling diluted medications on the black market after WWII, and many people died or were permanently disabled due to his actions. At one point in the movie he and his friend are up on a tramway, and he looks down on the people and says, 'If anyone of those dots stopped moving down there, would you really feel any regret'?
That, honestly, was the point this guy had gotten to.
Weirdly enough, he was fired, went back to school and...became a nurse???!!! I often wondered how kind and sympathetic he would be to the patients - and how easily he could access drugs in the hospital pharmacy.
SO! I think people who say those things usually have some pretty serious problems -- and these problems are persistent, and generally don't have a really good cure rate. But I don't actually feel the person who is the object of their 'humor' has any obligation to try to 'help' them.
If the person chooses to, so be it, and I hope they tell the person clearly the consequences of their behavior. 'How very not funny - you just lost a friend - for ever, but perhaps you're too wrapped up in your own **** to care'.
It's tougher when it's a relative you can't avoid. I believe in keeping the family together and not bearing grudges and forgiveness and all that bla bla bla, but many times such comments are a part of a long term very repetitive pattern, and often the only solution is to remove oneself from the presence of the person.
For some reason, some relatives will choose to constantly attack one individual in a family, and there just isn't anything one can do. In my case, I reminded a family member of our mother, whom she thought was a very inferior and laughable individual, only having a GED and being 'ignorant' and a 'lower class person'. She ridiculed my mother's appearance, mannerisms, etc. At one point, she said on the phone to me, 'Oh my God, your voice sounds EXACTLY like Mother's'. There were many other comments over the years - that was kind of the last in a long, long line of 'em.
What exactly can anyone do about how one's voice sounds? Just stay away from such people. Family cohesion and forgiveness can only be taken so far. Everyone has to decide for themselves how much abuse they want to suck up in the name of 'keeping the family together'. I really do not believe in bearing a grudge, but at a point, it becomes enough.
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- Thread starter
- #37
I wanted him so badly. Thank you soooo much for all your replies. You are very appreciated. I've had some horrible comments said to me too, a big lecture from my mother of all people who should know better. I'm avoiding the baby departments when before when I was pregnant I enjoyed hanging out there.
I'm so, so, so sorry for your loss.
I agree with what others have said, in that you should find somebody else for counseling. The current one sounds clueless.
Quote:
A friend of mine was comforting me when I had my first miscarriage, and she said something I will never forget (in a good way) - she said people will say "Oh don't worry, you can have another baby" and her words were "But I know you wanted THIS baby." Yes, exactly.
A friend of mine was comforting me when I had my first miscarriage, and she said something I will never forget (in a good way) - she said people will say "Oh don't worry, you can have another baby" and her words were "But I know you wanted THIS baby." Yes, exactly.
I am shocked a counselor would say such a thing..well not really...stupid people are everywhere. One of the things you learn when you go through counseling others for grief and loss is that you do not know how they feel and the person won't believe you when you say it because it is a silly thing to say that is impossible to be true because you aren't them...
What your counselor should have talked toyou about was your feelings, the steps of grieving, and future plans...a counselor lets you talk and replays your thoughts for you so you can see them from another perspective...get a new one...plenty of good ones out there
What your counselor should have talked toyou about was your feelings, the steps of grieving, and future plans...a counselor lets you talk and replays your thoughts for you so you can see them from another perspective...get a new one...plenty of good ones out there
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