Baytril or Cipro?

[AmyJane725]

I'm sorry how many kids do u have ? U can not let a man bring u down like that. I mean I hate my ex and I have to find a way to let that go for my sake not his. U need to do the same dear. Get in therapy I've been through 6 so far only 1i didn't mess well with. The others I learned what I could from them and move on to the next. But I'm a talker. U can friend me on fb Bobbielyn Howard I think or just Bobbie

I've got 20 kids. Four boys, 16 girls.
I've been in therapy for years already. There's nothing anyone can say that can change what happened. And I mean, I hate him, but I still love him, so that's the real problem. I can't deal with being so conflicted over it. I still wish he'd just say he's sorry, none of the little things matter in the grand scheme of things, he loves me more than all of that, and just come back home. I have nightmares about it every night, and I left him 3.5 years ago already.
And I don't do FB, but we can certainly be friends on here.

 

[AmyJane725]

So, to update on Ildi & Important Treatment Question: @azygous

-Yesterday, she ate three good meals (feed, eggs, spinach). I syringed her the meat and probiotic water. Her poops were sorta green, but I think that's from the spinach. Some were pretty solid/normal, others were basically just water. She had two 0.15 mL doses of Baytril.

-Today, she ate her feed for breakfast. I syringed her the meat, probiotic water and she's had one dose of Baytril. I think her sinuses are starting to clear, because last night when she was sleeping, and when she has been napping today, I could hear the air whistling when she breathes through her nose, rather than her just breathing through her mouth and avoiding her nose altogether. She seems to be more fluffed up today, which kinda worries me, but she seemed way sicker before and she wasn't fluffed up then, so I'm wondering if she didn't even have enough energy to fluff up before, and now she does?

Now, the big question: Here eye abscess is basically back, and I'm wondering if I'm going to need to open and drain it (or have the vet do it) in order for this infection to really go away? The Baytril won't shrink it on it's own will it? I don't think chickens can absorb their pus away since it's so solid. I could be wrong. Would love an expert opinion. Also, given the option, should I have the vet open and drain it, or should I try to do it myself? He doesn't use anesthetic or anything, but he does know more about anatomy than I do. I'm worried I'd mess up her facial nerves and paralyze her or something.

Here's some photos of her abscess:

 

[BY Bob]

I know that I am late to this dicussion but I want to weigh in with a piece of advice. First let me say that I am a microbiologist. I agree with you moving on to Bactrim. That is good wide spectrum antibiotic.

Now this is what I want to add. There is a chance that this could be an anaerobic infection. And you may need an antibiotic that treats anaerobic bacteria. If she is not showing signs of improvement from the baytril within 3 to 5 days, I would start a different antibiotic. You can get amoxy-tyl here.

https://allbirdproducts.com/products/copy-of-doxy-tyl-powder-generic

Tylosin is an anaerobic antimicrobial. I would order it and have it ready in case you need it as it will 5ake a few days to arrive. If you do need to use it, we can work through a direct dose for her if she is not drinking.

 

[AmyJane725]

I know that I am late to this dicussion but I want to weigh in with a piece of advice. First let me say that I am a microbiologist. I agree with you moving on to Bactrim. That is good wide spectrum antibiotic.

Now this is what I want to add. There is a chance that this could be an anaerobic infection. And you may need an antibiotic that treats anaerobic bacteria. If she is not showing signs of improvement from the baytril within 3 to 5 days, I would start a different antibiotic. You can get amoxy-tyl here.

https://allbirdproducts.com/products/copy-of-doxy-tyl-powder-generic

Tylosin is an anaerobic antimicrobial. I would order it and have it ready in case you need it as it will 5ake a few days to arrive. If you do need to use it, we can work through a direct dose for her if she is not drinking.

Better late than never, lol. I appreciate any help I can get, especially from someone so qualified.

Tylosin is the same thing that's in Tylan isn't it? Because we tried that while we were waiting for the Baytril to arrive, and it didn't seem to do anything.

 

[AmyJane725]

@azygous , did you see my question for you in post #102?

 

[azygous]

I'm sorry. I saw it and gave it some thought, did some research, then got sidetracked by by own chickens.

It's true that chicken pus has to be carved out. It won't drain as it's like wax. You're way ahead of the game knowing that this is an infection and the bacteria has been identified as E.coli. Knowing this, and knowing that E.coli is a wily bacteria that can figure out how to defy antibiotics, you might need to face the possibility that you have a strain that is doing that.

There is a way to get the antibiotic to work on the E.coli, and that's to supplement it with a certain inhibitor (extended spectrum beta-lactamase, ESBL) that changes the conditions of the tissue to make the antibiotic more effective, but this medication is usually an IV or injection and should be done by a vet. (This reeks of being very expensive.)

What I would do is to plug away with the Baytril for another week and see how it goes. Hold off draining it again until you see how the Baytril works over the next several days. It sounds very much like our patient now has infection systemically. If that's the case, draining the infection won't cure it. The Baytril needs to work. It's about the best antibiotic for this purpose there is, so you are really doing all you can possibly do.

This hen is too darned gorgeous to die. Hold that thought.

 

[AmyJane725]

I'm sorry. I saw it and gave it some thought, did some research, then got sidetracked by by own chickens.

It's true that chicken pus has to be carved out. It won't drain as it's like wax. You're way ahead of the game knowing that this is an infection and the bacteria has been identified as E.coli. Knowing this, and knowing that E.coli is a wily bacteria that can figure out how to defy antibiotics, you might need to face the possibility that you have a strain that is doing that.

There is a way to get the antibiotic to work on the E.coli, and that's to supplement it with a certain inhibitor (extended spectrum beta-lactamase, ESBL) that changes the conditions of the tissue to make the antibiotic more effective, but this medication is usually an IV or injection and should be done by a vet. (This reeks of being very expensive.)

What I would do is to plug away with the Baytril for another week and see how it goes. Hold off draining it again until you see how the Baytril works over the next several days. It sounds very much like our patient now has infection systemically. If that's the case, draining the infection won't cure it. The Baytril needs to work. It's about the best antibiotic for this purpose there is, so you are really doing all you can possibly do.

This hen is too darned gorgeous to die. Hold that thought.

-No worries. Are your chickens doing ok?

-Well, I'm glad there's still an option out there maybe. Even if it's expensive I'll do it. I'll start selling plasma or something. I have an Etsy store. I should start advertising harder...

-The vet mentioned that he's afraid that if what originally infected her (a splinter or something) got lodged under the skin and then worked it's way down to the point where it's impossible to remove and it's going to keep re-seeding the infection, so no matter how many times we beat it back, it'll always come back from that source. I'm really hoping that's not the case. I mean, her eyebrow was swollen for maybe a week before he saw her and cleaned it out, and then it was cleaned out again two more times after that. I feel like it wouldn't have had enough time to go that deep in the first week, and if he had seen a foreign body in there he would have removed it.

-I will definitely keep on with the Baytril. My vet even admitted that it's the ideal medication/what he always used to prescribe for pet birds back before it was illegal, but now he "can't comment" on if I should try to use it or anything. He says he'd lose his license for prescribing it. I wonder if that's just in my state, because I've seen other members say that their vets prescribed Baytril for them, and that was recently, not years ago.

-And yes, she is. She's way too sweet to die too. Such a gentle girl. Even though she feels crappy she painstakingly makes her way over to sit with me/on me. She's so quiet. Doesn't bother anyone. I love her so much.

 

[azygous]

My flock is fine, but my oldest hen is dying, and I'm trying to give her supportive care in her last days. She's nearly fourteen.

 

[AmyJane725]

My flock is fine, but my oldest hen is dying, and I'm trying to give her supportive care in her last days. She's nearly fourteen.

Oh wow. That is ANCIENT for a chicken! You are an amazing chicken parent. I thought eight was pretty much that maximum age, and that's if you're super lucky and they don't get some kind of inoperable reproductive cancer/disease.

I'm sorry she's passing away. Must be tough to know that. I'm glad you can be there to give her supportive care. What is her name? Is she just slowing down/coming to a stop, or does she have a sickness that's catching up with her or something like that (if you don't mind my asking)?

 

[azygous]

She's a Light Brahma named Lady Di. She was one of my very first chicks. She developed a tumor over her eye at age seven and it's only just recently started causing issues, torticolis being the main problem. I suspect the tumor has finally affected her brain and it's shutting down her organs. Up until today, she's has normal periods where she gets around the run and eats on her own. But today, she has been semi-conscious and won't eat. Overall, she's in decline. But this is not unexpected at her age. I'll miss her fiercely when she goes. This thread is about my aging chickens. https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/issues-with-advanced-age-chickens.1379757/