CHICKS SUDDENLY DYING! Any thoughts or suggestions?

[kynewbchickie]

I have a similar problem. all seemed fine and one by one they almost walk as if they are lame or cannot walk, then weak and lethargic, then die. almost seem like they are paralized on one side HELP!

Paralysis-like signs in chicks could be indicative of a Marek's infection in your babies....I hope not for your chicks' sakes, and your's!

 

[ginnychick]

I felt my brooder was a bit on the hotter side at times, but they all seemed to like it and do well. They would move to the outer edges if felt too warm. If I closed the door it would become too hot in the small room.Unless the chicks could not move to the edges and it was sweltering in there, I don't think this was the cause, since my lamp got up to in the 90's at time in the beginning....

I then came upon a Youtube video describing installing a dimmer right to the brooder, which my husband was able to do for me very easily and inexpensively. This way I could leave the lamp where it was and just lower/dim it a bit and adjust that way. Great way to be able to adjust the temp. The guy is brilliant and has come up with different homegrown solutions to problems such as this. I went from initally a 100w bulb, to a 75W to a 60W and still really needed the dimmer to adjust the temp. I am now going to turn start turning the light off at night so that they don't have light 24 hours a day.

BTW, just got back my final necropsy report which I will post as my next post.

 

[ginnychick]

Yes, paralysis could be Marek's.

My chicks were not paralyzed at any time. Their symptoms were : they were moving around beautifully and then,more of a sudden sluggishness, sitting down and breathing heavily for a bit before passing - all this in a matter of less than an hour!

 

[ginnychick]

FINALLY GOT THE RESULTS OF THE NECROPSY! I hope some of you will be able to help me decipher it! I was originally told there were no visible parasites, but doesn't it seem for it say there were some detected? It does not read clear. Also, seems to say that there was necrosis of the koilin (protein lining) of the gizzard - some large pieces of food ..... I can see this maybe killing one, but not that two of them died with such similar symptoms. If there were parasites found, then this could mean thatn they could have had cocci?


New Jersey Department of Agriculture

New Jersy Animal Health Diagnostic Laboratory
Courier: 3 Schwarzkopf Drive Ewing, NJ 08628
U.S. Mail: P.O. Box 330 Trenton, NJ 08625
Telephone: (609) 406-6999
Accounting: (609) 406-6999
Fax: (609) 671-6414
FINAL RESULTS REPORT
SUSAN A LUCHESE
NAI/LBMS
,
Case#: 13-534 Species: Chicken
Submitted Date: 04/09/13 Breed: Chicken
Owner: Linnell, Virginia Age: 5 Weeks Ol ------------------------------------
Report Date: 04/17/13 Sex: Authorized by: Dr. Swist, Pathologist
Pathology Section
Histopathology - Verified on: 04/17/13
Animal Id Specimen Result
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------
Pullet tiss composite Completed Histopathology
Comment:
Microscopic Description:
Liver, spleen, lung, heart, pectoral (skeletal) muscle, kidney,
bursa, thymus, trachea, ovary, pancreas, duodenum, colon and brain:
No significant lesions (NSL).
Proventriculus: There are multifocal nodular aggregates of
lymphoplasmacytic infiltrates expanding the lamina propria.
Ventriculus: There is multifocal to regionally extensive necrosis,
degeneration and loss of koilin with fraying and disruption of
affected layers, embedding of feed and refractile, foreign material
fragments and superficial bacterial colonization. (Trauma to
ventricular koilin secondary to ingested foreign bodies or harsh
feed).
Crop: Diffuse mucosal hyperplasia with superficial bacterial
colonization (mild, cocci).
Small intestine (jejunum and ileum): moderate to marked autolysis;
there are large pieces of undigested plant fibers and feed material
in the lumen of the small intestine
Microscopic Diagnosis:
Proventriculus: proventriculitis, lymphoplasmacytic, multifocal,
subacute to chronic, moderate.
Ventriculus: koilin necrosis, degeneration and loss, multifocal to
regionally extensive, subacute, severe with superficial bacterial
colonization and embedded feed/foreign material.
Crop: Ingluvitis, proliferative, diffuse, subacute to chronic,
Test Results Report for Case#: 13-534 Page 2
Pathology Section
Histopathology - Verified on: 04/17/13
Animal Id Specimen Result
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------
moderate.
Comments:
The trauma to the ventricular koilin, non-specific crop mucosal
hyperplasia and chronic inflammatory response of the proventriculus
are likely secondary to ingestion of foreign material or coarse
feeds; there is evidence of large, undigested plant fibers and feed
material in the distal intestinal tract.
Pathologist:
Shannon L. Swist, DVM, MS
Office: (609) 671-6409
[email protected]
Bacteriology
Anaerobic Culture - Verified on: 04/17/13
Animal Id Specimen Genus/Species Results Level
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------ --------------------
Pullet Small intestine Clostridium Clostridiiforme Detected
Salmonella Culture - Verified on: 04/16/13
Animal Id Specimen Genus/Species Results Level
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------ --------------------
Pullet Small intestine No Pathogen Isolated
Page 1
13-354 Final Report Linnell-Pullet.txt
Aerobic Culture - Verified on: 04/16/13
Animal Id Specimen Genus/Species Results Level
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------ --------------------
Pullet Liver No Pathogen Isolated
Comment:
Few Leuconostoc spp present
Pullet Lung No Pathogen Isolated
Comment:
Few Leuconostoc spp present
Pullet Small intestine No Pathogen Isolated
Pathology Section
Qualitative Fecal Flotation - Verified on: 04/11/13
Animal Id Specimen Genus/Species Results Level
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------ --------------------
Pullet Feces None Observed
Comment:
Qualitative fecal analysis: The number of eggs or parasites is the
number observed on the entire slide (not per field) for each
parasite reported. 1 egg or parasite=rare; 2-4 eggs or
parasites=few; 5-10 eggs or parasites=light; 11-50 eggs or
Test Results Report for Case#: 13-534 Page 3
Pathology Section
Qualitative Fecal Flotation - Verified on: 04/11/13
Animal Id Specimen Genus/Species Results Level
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------ --------------------
parasites=moderate and >50 eggs or parasites=heavy.
Gross Pathology - Verified on: 04/11/13
Animal Id Specimen Result
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------
Pullet Whole Body Dead gross pathology
Comment:
Gross Findings:
Submitted for necropsy is a deceased 5 week old, barred rock breed
pullet. There is mild post mortem tissue autolysis at the time of
examination. This pullet is in good body condition (body weight:
263 g) with small amounts of subcutaneous and visceral fat deposits.
The pectoral muscle is pale. The thymus, bursa and spleen are
present and active. The crop and ventriculus are packed with a dry,
mash-like feed and the colon contains formed feces. The brain and
cranial vault are grossly unremarkable.
Comments:
The fecal matter is well-formed and easily takes the shape of the
intestine after expression; the consistency (increased firmness,
retention of shape) is uncharacteristic (abnormal) for poultry
feces. Additional diagnostics tests are pending; results to follow.
Pathologist:
Shannon L. Swist, DVM, MS
Office: (609) 671-6409
[email protected]
Molecular
Avian Flu PCR - Verified on: 04/11/13
Animal Id Specimen Genus/Species Results Level
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------ --------------------
Pullet swab tracheal Negative
Page 2​

 

[kynewbchickie]

FINALLY GOT THE RESULTS OF THE NECROPSY! I hope some of you will be able to help me decipher it! I was originally told there were no visible parasites, but doesn't it seem for it say there were some detected? It does not read clear. Also, seems to say that there was necrosis of the koilin (protein lining) of the gizzard - some large pieces of food ..... I can see this maybe killing one, but not that two of them died with such similar symptoms. If there were parasites found, then this could mean thatn they could have had cocci?


New Jersey Department of Agriculture

New Jersy Animal Health Diagnostic Laboratory
Courier: 3 Schwarzkopf Drive Ewing, NJ 08628
U.S. Mail: P.O. Box 330 Trenton, NJ 08625
Telephone: (609) 406-6999
Accounting: (609) 406-6999
Fax: (609) 671-6414
FINAL RESULTS REPORT
SUSAN A LUCHESE
NAI/LBMS
,
Case#: 13-534 Species: Chicken
Submitted Date: 04/09/13 Breed: Chicken
Owner: Linnell, Virginia Age: 5 Weeks Ol ------------------------------------
Report Date: 04/17/13 Sex: Authorized by: Dr. Swist, Pathologist
Pathology Section
Histopathology - Verified on: 04/17/13
Animal Id Specimen Result
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------
Pullet tiss composite Completed Histopathology
Comment:
Microscopic Description:
Liver, spleen, lung, heart, pectoral (skeletal) muscle, kidney,
bursa, thymus, trachea, ovary, pancreas, duodenum, colon and brain:
No significant lesions (NSL).
Proventriculus: There are multifocal nodular aggregates of
lymphoplasmacytic infiltrates expanding the lamina propria.
Ventriculus: There is multifocal to regionally extensive necrosis,
degeneration and loss of koilin with fraying and disruption of
affected layers, embedding of feed and refractile, foreign material
fragments and superficial bacterial colonization. (Trauma to
ventricular koilin secondary to ingested foreign bodies or harsh
feed).
Crop: Diffuse mucosal hyperplasia with superficial bacterial
colonization (mild, cocci).
Small intestine (jejunum and ileum): moderate to marked autolysis;
there are large pieces of undigested plant fibers and feed material
in the lumen of the small intestine
Microscopic Diagnosis:
Proventriculus: proventriculitis, lymphoplasmacytic, multifocal,
subacute to chronic, moderate.
Ventriculus: koilin necrosis, degeneration and loss, multifocal to
regionally extensive, subacute, severe with superficial bacterial
colonization and embedded feed/foreign material.
Crop: Ingluvitis, proliferative, diffuse, subacute to chronic,
Test Results Report for Case#: 13-534 Page 2
Pathology Section
Histopathology - Verified on: 04/17/13
Animal Id Specimen Result
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------
moderate.
Comments:
The trauma to the ventricular koilin, non-specific crop mucosal
hyperplasia and chronic inflammatory response of the proventriculus
are likely secondary to ingestion of foreign material or coarse
feeds; there is evidence of large, undigested plant fibers and feed
material in the distal intestinal tract.
Pathologist:
Shannon L. Swist, DVM, MS
Office: (609) 671-6409
[email protected]
Bacteriology
Anaerobic Culture - Verified on: 04/17/13
Animal Id Specimen Genus/Species Results Level
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------ --------------------
Pullet Small intestine Clostridium Clostridiiforme Detected
Salmonella Culture - Verified on: 04/16/13
Animal Id Specimen Genus/Species Results Level
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------ --------------------
Pullet Small intestine No Pathogen Isolated
Page 1
13-354 Final Report Linnell-Pullet.txt
Aerobic Culture - Verified on: 04/16/13
Animal Id Specimen Genus/Species Results Level
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------ --------------------
Pullet Liver No Pathogen Isolated
Comment:
Few Leuconostoc spp present
Pullet Lung No Pathogen Isolated
Comment:
Few Leuconostoc spp present
Pullet Small intestine No Pathogen Isolated
Pathology Section
Qualitative Fecal Flotation - Verified on: 04/11/13
Animal Id Specimen Genus/Species Results Level
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------ --------------------
Pullet Feces None Observed
Comment:
Qualitative fecal analysis: The number of eggs or parasites is the
number observed on the entire slide (not per field) for each
parasite reported. 1 egg or parasite=rare; 2-4 eggs or
parasites=few; 5-10 eggs or parasites=light; 11-50 eggs or
Test Results Report for Case#: 13-534 Page 3
Pathology Section
Qualitative Fecal Flotation - Verified on: 04/11/13
Animal Id Specimen Genus/Species Results Level
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------ --------------------
parasites=moderate and >50 eggs or parasites=heavy.
Gross Pathology - Verified on: 04/11/13
Animal Id Specimen Result
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------
Pullet Whole Body Dead gross pathology
Comment:
Gross Findings:
Submitted for necropsy is a deceased 5 week old, barred rock breed
pullet. There is mild post mortem tissue autolysis at the time of
examination. This pullet is in good body condition (body weight:
263 g) with small amounts of subcutaneous and visceral fat deposits.
The pectoral muscle is pale. The thymus, bursa and spleen are
present and active. The crop and ventriculus are packed with a dry,
mash-like feed and the colon contains formed feces. The brain and
cranial vault are grossly unremarkable.
Comments:
The fecal matter is well-formed and easily takes the shape of the
intestine after expression; the consistency (increased firmness,
retention of shape) is uncharacteristic (abnormal) for poultry
feces. Additional diagnostics tests are pending; results to follow.
Pathologist:
Shannon L. Swist, DVM, MS
Office: (609) 671-6409
[email protected]
Molecular
Avian Flu PCR - Verified on: 04/11/13
Animal Id Specimen Genus/Species Results Level
------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------------ ------------------------ --------------------
Pullet swab tracheal Negative
Page 2​

Reads to me like the crop wasn't digesting/breaking down the feed/plant matter properly as 1st cause (they say it was subacute to chronic so this could have been genetic/going on before you got them, don't beat yourself up!); 2nd issue was the koilin issue. The cocci bacteria was present, and they said additional diagnostics are pending due to abnormal feces formation. That's what I got out of all that. Anyone else?

Still, so, SO sorry for your loss.

 

[heby]

What watt bulb do you have?

Raise the lamp a bit more if they're getting too warm - you can have your hubby do this since you're out of town.

I was using a 75w I believe. I spoke to my husband and he has since been turning the light off during the day while he was at work and turning it back on at night for them. They have room to move out of the heat if they want or get too warm so I don't know why they wouldn't.

However, since he has been doing this, they have seemed to be fine. They are in the house so I know they don't get too chilly anyways. I just hate that I lost any, especially my son's chick that he picked out and purchased himself.

I dread him going back home because the brooder is the first place he will run to. We also had our dog attack our roo the day we were leaving town. Thank goodness that he is fine tho. My kids love their chickens and the simpler things in life.

 

[mg15]

ginnychick
In looking for koilin in the necropsy I came
across this site http://partnersah.vet.cornell.edu/avian-atlas/lists/examfinding

 

[ginnychick]

Mary Grace,

What a great link, thanks!

KYnewbchickie,

I am starting to think I might have been part of the cause!
I did read about the gizzard and the undigested food - ( I was giving them treats - such as dill, some lettuce, hard boiled eggs and I did not give them grit!) I did not realize I had to - I feel SO BAD. I did not think the grit was necessary with just the little I was giving them, but obviously it was.

What surprises me is that two of the chicks died.

The first had been the weakest of the bunch from when we got her; so when she died, I ascribed it to her having come with something already and that is what did it. It was strange because she had seemed to have gotten stronger and put on weight so well and no other symptoms.....

The second was so robust, had never looked ill and died a weak later, in less than one hour from the beginning of not acting right - this one was a total shock! So, I thought it very likely was the same thing, but now am wondering if it was not. They both acted very similarly before they died. It was so sudden, they just started sitting down and breathing deeply and not wanting to move.

The chicks might have come with cocci. The little one, i'm guessing might have died from that. The second one might have been as a result of the over zealous mom (me) feeding them too any treats and no grit for them to digest them! They did find some cocci in her necropsy, but I don't think that was the only cause. (?)

I have gone out and bought new medicated feed (in the event the feed I have been giving them is rancid, (but doesn't smell bad!) and is causing some sort of deficiency in them. I read that Selenium and Vit E deficiency can be caused by the feed, as can deficiency in thiamine, since the medication blocks the absoption of that B vit. The link posted by Mary Grace described the cause and symptoms so well. It sounded like a type of MS, which shows up in the lining of the gizzard and also the breast becomes pale.
I also bought grit and have started administering to them, with the hopes that it will help them digest and prevent what seems to have happened to chick #2 (Cocoa).

I am planning on giving them the medicated feed that has the amprolium since some cocci was found, for at least 2-3 more weeks. Would it be advisable to give the additional 9.6% Corid also. I just don't know if the amount of cocci is within the tolerable level or how high it is by reading the report. Hate to give them an additional antibiotic if it is not necessary. Can anyone decipher the report better?

The necropsy says some tests are pending, but also the report says that it was final; so i don't know if they really are doing anything further. I will email and ask. The state does not help explain the results and want a vet to do it. Problem is there are no vets around here that are poultry vets, so I think they would be charging their normal fees and just guessing. I think many folks on this site know much more than the regular vets.

Thank you all for your posts and concerns. Let me know if you have any other thoughts.

 

[Chiklette]

You should probably do some research on parsley toxicity in birds. Most of what I have read says that you should not feed it to them. When in doubt, consult an avian veterinarian.

Welcome to BYC! If the wheezing and open mouth breathing starts just before they die, I would bet that it's just part of the dying process.

...

...And right before their last breath, they seem to cry in pain trying to take that last breath...so sad..made me cry.

 

[casportpony]

...

...And right before their last breath, they seem to cry in pain trying to take that last breath...so sad..made me cry.

I've had a few do that and like you, I usually cry.

-Kathy