coop run vs free range

[reesechickpic]

Hi all, I am sure there is a post about this out there but I wanted to put my specific circumstances into play. We are building a coop that said it is suitable for 12-15 chickens. we got 15 chicks, they're two weeks old now. after more research, I think the coop size is fine for 15 chickens but they will have to be free range also. I have a few concerns with this, although, I know it would be best, I would like to know the best way to solve some of these problems.
1. we have a huge property with not great fencing, lots of different plants, tall trees, places to hide/get lost.
-how do we make sure they stay in close proximity and make sure they go in before dark? we've had problems with them roosting in trees and not being able to get them out.
2. the dog. Ideally, he would be friendly with the chickens and they could all run and play together. he chases anything that runs, I think he even chases the sound of his echo in the canyons. he's a small dog, but really beefy and can be territorial. a large male French bulldog, for anyone wondering.
-how do we introduce them? the dog is very friendly with our cat, but the cat doesn't run from him and they've been around each other for ~5 years. he chases other cats that show up around our house.
I guess those are the two main problems we're facing. any tips on a coop size for 15 chickens or how to manage a 'free range' flock under these circumstances?

 

[Ol Grey Mare]

A run is a great thing to have and not need but a horrible thing to need and not have. There are times confining your flick may be necessary and they are most often rather emergent in nature (active predator situation you are working to address, illness you nerd to treat, convenience, etc) andvthat is not the time to have to stop and build. Build a run.....you'll never regret doing so when you need it, but may well cuss the decision not to

 

[Ridgerunner]

Practically every prefab coop manufacturer out there uses ancient industrial spacing to say how many birds their coops will hold. Those are based on hybrids especially bred to "take confinement well", often trim their beaks to keep them from eating each other, use special ways to feed and water, don't offer them roosts, and have industrial methods of dealing with poop. Many current commercial operations are getting away from that, partly due to public pressure and in some jurisdictions there are even regulations about it. But if you look hard enough you can still find those recommendations. Some prefab coop manufacturers even stretch extremes. Simply put, we do not raise our chickens that way.

1. we have a huge property with not great fencing, lots of different plants, tall trees, places to hide/get lost.
-how do we make sure they stay in close proximity and make sure they go in before dark? we've had problems with them roosting in trees and not being able to get them out.

You are dealing with living animals, you can't "make sure" of anything. You can encourage them to roost in your coop, they instinctively go to bed when it gets dark and are usually creatures of habit. One way to encourage them is to house them in that coop section only for a while, if it is big enough. Yours might not be. That doesn't always work. I keep mine in an area with a coop and run. If they don't go into the coop at dark I catch them at dark when they settle down and are easy to catch and lock them in the coop for the night until they start going in on their own. I don't let mine out to range in a bigger area until they consistently go into the coop on their own. Sometimes they learn quickly , sometimes it takes weeks.

Even when mine are adults they often get pretty rough with each other as they go to bed. The ones highest in the pecking order get to sleep where they want. The others have to make do with other spots. They may peck offending birds (it is the pecking order) or they may just knock them off the roosts. It's not as bad as it sounds but it can be a bit hectic.

Yours are only two weeks old. They have to go through puberty, that can be a rough time. My brooder raised chicks typically do not start to roost until they are 10 to 12 weeks old. Some have started at 5 weeks, some wait a lot longer, but 10 to 12 is a good average for mine. That may be because of what my coop looks like. The point is, I've had chickens leave the coop and tried to roost outside when they go through puberty. It does not happen that often but I have a large coop with a lot of roost space. That's a concern with that prefab coop, you may not have a lot of space inside, let alone roost space.

2. the dog. Ideally, he would be friendly with the chickens and they could all run and play together. he chases anything that runs, I think he even chases the sound of his echo in the canyons. he's a small dog, but really beefy and can be territorial. a large male French bulldog, for anyone wondering.
-how do we introduce them? the dog is very friendly with our cat, but the cat doesn't run from him and they've been around each other for ~5 years. he chases other cats that show up around our house.

Could be a real challenge. I managed to teach my dogs to not chase or play with the chickens, even when they ran away. I got my mutts from the pound as pups. One wasn't that hard, the other was a real challenge. They were outside dogs. Dogs don't do much protecting when they are locked in your house.

I started by introducing the dogs to the chicks when on leash and the chicks were in the brooder. They were not allowed to play with them and we made "soothing" noises. Any aggressive move and they were "spoken to harshly". When the chicks were in the pen the dogs were allowed to interact through the fence, they weren't all that interested. When I let the chickens out to roam the dogs were confined to a 30' x 60' dog pen if I wasn't out with them. If I were out there where I could watch I would watch them and correct any aggressive move. One wasn't bad, the other I had to grab it by the collar and speak to it quite severely a few times to get the message across. This did not happen overnight it took weeks.

It takes time, it takes work, It's not always easy. I think some dogs are pretty untrainable, they have such high prey drives. I'm also sure others use other methods.

On free ranging. Some people can free range for years without serious predator losses. Others are wiped out almost immediately when they try. It's fairly common to lose one occasionally but not that often. Dogs have been the worst for me, dogs that were abandoned in the country. I have hawks, owls and an occasional eagle. They haven't been an issue with me but for others they can be a huge issue. If a fox or bobcat finds your flock they may wipe out a bunch at a time but what I've seen is that they take one a day. They don't all act the same.

Someone above recommended you build a pen. I encourage that, a pen big enough that you can lock your flock in there for weeks if you need to. When I lost one to what I think was a fox I left the flock locked in my run for about a month, long enough for the fox to realize it was not a good place for a free meal. There are other reasons a pen can be handy, such as teaching your chickens to lay or roost in the coop.

 

[CindyinSD]

I would build them a good-sized run enclosing their coop, then keep them confined in that area for a couple weeks to a month. My run isn't covered and we've had no trouble with this so far, though we do have plentiful raptors. The birds are good at running for cover. If you should decide to cover, game bird netting is an oft-used choice.

During their confinement, give them their ration before closing them up for the night. Don't feed them much (or at all) in the morning.If you feed them at night, they'll look forward to that and come back. When you feed, talk to them--something distinctive in accord with your personality. I do a sing-song "I've got food for you! Are you birdies hungry? Are you hungry? 'Course you are!" & etc. It doesn't matter what you do so long as you can more or less duplicate it each time you feed them.

I do this and my birds come running. They're so excited--it's hilarious and I love it. So fun. I also save eggshells and kitchen scraps for them. We don't have a lot of scraps, but when they see me go out on the deck they act just the same way, whether I've got treats or am just going out to start up the grill or whatever. They're very food motivated. This also helps If I want to gather them up during the day. Will come for treats!

At night they'll automatically come back to the coop. You won't have to chase them at all. They come because it's their safe refuge, because they want their evening meal, and just because it's time for bed. If you have stragglers, you will likely need to keep them in the fenced run another couple of weeks. It won't hurt them and it'll make life much more pleasant for you.

 

[centrarchid]

I have a lot more acreage than the birds actual range over. My fences do not limit the chickens habits most of the time. Currently my flock size is down to where their is sufficient run and coop space to keep all in good spirits when penned. That is essential currently as I break pups in to be with chickens. Considerable oversight required with pups and chickens. Those chickens free-ranged are released later in day while pups are confined unless I am monitoring what is going on.


My chickens learn to navigate their location and imprint on their roost site. When first released they stay close to release point, but move further afield in subsequent days. They quickly learn which location provide what eats, cover and other resources so they will develop a daily pattern where they forage and do other things. The pattern differs with weather.

Dog issue is more complex. That is one I have to develop by doing while keeping control over the dog when it does bad.

 

[aart]

We are building a coop that said it is suitable for 12-15 chickens.

any tips on a coop size for 15 chickens

How big is your coop?
Pics and dimensions will help here.
Winter conditions is something to think about.
Even if you plan on free ranging, having a decent sized secure run is good to have for when predator issues arise.

 

[Mrs. K]

You need a run. Now if you have a run, you can still let them out to free range. The more you let them out, the farther they will roam. As you have all chicks, you have no birds with any experience. Experience comes expensive as in predators love inexperienced chicks by themselves.

I have a coop/ run...fort knox. (!#$^!$% coons) However I do let mine out of that set up to free range, but I do not let them out on the same time each day. Predators are quick to capitalize on routines.
I don't let mine out if:

• cloudy or high wind days - gives too much advantage to predators
• on a daily schedule - sometimes all day, sometimes part of a day, somedays not at all
• if I get hit by a predator, I do not let them out for several days, so the predator moves on, as they will be back.
• if we are gone for a couple of days, mine stay in lock down.

You do not have a multi-generational flock. Eventually you will, and that will help, the older birds will teach the younger birds. A good adult, more than a year old rooster can also help with daytime predation, not all roosters are good roosters, and roosters IMO take some experience.

Good luck, but build the run.

Mrs K

 

[centrarchid]

the coop is 8x10View attachment 2081883

Not prefab.

 

[CindyinSD]

the coop is 8x10View attachment 2081883

Beautiful job on the coop/run. It may not be big enough for 15 birds. Are you in southern California? No winter to speak of? If so it may work out for you. The coop won't be big enough to be anything but a bedroom to 15 full-grown chickens. They're gonna be tight in that run, too. Maybe you could add some additional run space without the roof--maybe just netting? Or if you don't need overhead protection in your area, just a well-fenced area to give them some more space?

 

[Ridgerunner]

That's a lot better than I envisioned when you said "suitable for 12-15 chickens". I was expecting something like a 4x8.