Isabel cochins?

[Citychickengal]

Do Isabel cochins exist in the US? I think the color is gorgeous and I’d love to find some, but I’m not having any luck. Does anyone know names/contact info of anyone who breeds them?

If not, can anyone point me in the direction of some good info on genetics and how I’d even go about breeding for the Isabel color? I’m a total newb to this, so be nice

Thank you!!

 

[Cyprus]

@nicalandia could help with genetics

 

[The Moonshiner]

I'd need to know what you're referring to as isabel since I've been seeing different variations being called isabels lately.
Isabel should be lavender on gold duckwing but you'd probably have to use partridge like breeders are doing with orpingtons.

Cross partridge with lavender (self blue). Then cross the offspring together.
That will give you a 25% chance of chicks with partridge pattern and a 25% chance of chicks that are lavender. If you can get any that get both the lavender color and the partridge pattern then you're there.
If the lavender you start with is silver based instead of gold based then you'll have to breed away from the silver. It would be best to use a partridge rooster over lavender hens if you have silver involved or are unsure if you do.
Crossing that direction will give you gold based pullets and split silver/gold cockerels. So when you breed your F1s together around half of the next generation will be the gold based you want.
Anyways that's a start. If any questions feel free to ask.

 

[nicalandia]

I'd need to know what you're referring to as isabel since I've been seeing different variations being called isabels lately.
Isabel should be lavender on gold duckwing but you'd probably have to use partridge like breeders are doing with orpingtons.

Cross partridge with lavender (self blue). Then cross the offspring together.
That will give you a 25% chance of chicks with partridge pattern and a 25% chance of chicks that are lavender. If you can get any that get both the lavender color and the partridge pattern then you're there.
If the lavender you start with is silver based instead of gold based then you'll have to breed away from the silver. It would be best to use a partridge rooster over lavender hens if you have silver involved or are unsure if you do.
Crossing that direction will give you gold based pullets and split silver/gold cockerels. So when you breed your F1s together around half of the next generation will be the gold based you want.
Anyways that's a start. If any questions feel free to ask.

I agree 100%

 

[Citychickengal]

I'd need to know what you're referring to as isabel since I've been seeing different variations being called isabels lately.
Isabel should be lavender on gold duckwing but you'd probably have to use partridge like breeders are doing with orpingtons.

Cross partridge with lavender (self blue). Then cross the offspring together.
That will give you a 25% chance of chicks with partridge pattern and a 25% chance of chicks that are lavender. If you can get any that get both the lavender color and the partridge pattern then you're there.
If the lavender you start with is silver based instead of gold based then you'll have to breed away from the silver. It would be best to use a partridge rooster over lavender hens if you have silver involved or are unsure if you do.
Crossing that direction will give you gold based pullets and split silver/gold cockerels. So when you breed your F1s together around half of the next generation will be the gold based you want.
Anyways that's a start. If any questions feel free to ask.

Thank you!

I haven’t been able to find much even on google of true Isabel coloring. I like the diluted partridge pattern, but I think that’s closer to the porcelain color? I could be wrong, but from what I understand porcelain is diluted Mille fleur, and Isabel shouldn’t have any of the chevron/patterning. These photos off google are the best I could find to illustrate what color I’m after.

 

[The Moonshiner]

You're correct porcelain is lavender Mille fleur. Of course porcelain is also being used incorrectly in some breeds.
I work with leghorns and have the isabel pattern with them.
They are true isabel. Lavender gold duckwing.
You may find some info searching them.
Idk of the duckwing pattern in cochins so partridge would be close and what you would need to use.
Its an easy pattern to work with and you can keep breeding your isabels back to partridges to make splits then breed those together or to isabels to build numbers and/or improve type.

 

[nicalandia]

You're correct porcelain is lavender Mille fleur. Of course porcelain is also being used incorrectly in some breeds.
I work with leghorns and have the isabel pattern with them.
They are true isabel. Lavender gold duckwing.

True Isabel pattern is based on the Wildtype pattern(the pattern found in RJF), I believe that the "Duckwing" pattern is mostly used by game breeders as in Silver ducking, Black Breasted Red and such, but it does not exist in the Leghorn breed, the wildtype pattern used in leghorns is Light Brown Leghorns, Duckwing refers to the male "Duck Like Wing" color

In Duckwing pattern the Secondaries(#4) are gold/Mahogany for gold based s+ and Silver/White for Silver based S,


Many breeds lack the wildtype e+ allele and the wildtype pattern is not found so the best alternative is to use the partridge(eb/eb) pattern, the males will look identical to Wildtype, but females will have a different pattern.

Here is a good description of both the males and females of e+/e+ and eb/eb based Isabel

https://www.leghorn.nl/artikelen/Isabel patrijs-UK.pdf?phpMyAdmin=92cf0928fc32fa6ade98585639c49441

 

[Citychickengal]

You're correct porcelain is lavender Mille fleur. Of course porcelain is also being used incorrectly in some breeds.
I work with leghorns and have the isabel pattern with them.
They are true isabel. Lavender gold duckwing.
You may find some info searching them.
Idk of the duckwing pattern in cochins so partridge would be close and what you would need to use.
Its an easy pattern to work with and you can keep breeding your isabels back to partridges to make splits then breed those together or to isabels to build numbers and/or improve type.

True Isabel pattern is based on the Wildtype pattern(the pattern found in RJF), I believe that the "Duckwing" pattern is mostly used by game breeders as in Silver ducking, Black Breasted Red and such, but it does not exist in the Leghorn breed, the wildtype pattern used in leghorns is Light Brown Leghorns, Duckwing refers to the male "Duck Like Wing" color

In Duckwing pattern the Secondaries(#4) are gold/Mahogany for gold based s+ and Silver/White for Silver based S,


Many breeds lack the wildtype e+ allele and the wildtype pattern is not found so the best alternative is to use the partridge(eb/eb) pattern, the males will look identical to Wildtype, but females will have a different pattern.

Here is a good description of both the males and females of e+/e+ and eb/eb based Isabel

https://www.leghorn.nl/artikelen/Isabel patrijs-UK.pdf?phpMyAdmin=92cf0928fc32fa6ade98585639c49441

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Thank you both, that’s really helpful! I haven’t ever bred for a specific color so I wasn’t really sure where to start with the Isabel. Unfortunately I have neither a partridge or lavender, so this isn’t something I can start right away, but it’ll give me something to start with when I can!

Do either of you have any recommendations for books/sites where I can read and learn more about color genetics?

 

[apup2love]

Thank you both, that’s really helpful! I haven’t ever bred for a specific color so I wasn’t really sure where to start with the Isabel. Unfortunately I have neither a partridge or lavender, so this isn’t something I can start right away, but it’ll give me something to start with when I can!

Do either of you have any recommendations for books/sites where I can read and learn more about color genetics?

have you had any luck with this? I also want Isabel Cochins. I have partridge LF and plan on getting lavender to do this color.