Nice Girl syndrome... so true

[MuscoviesBeta]

Men and women are equal because they are both good at different things, but women and men can both be whatever they want to be, stay at home dad, sure why not, go to law school at 40 and become one of the best land use lawers in south florida, thats cool to, both my parents work incredibly hard and have made many sacrifices. My mother was an artist, a planner and is now a lawyer after taking night classes while still being the head of the planning and zoning department in the town of davie, and my father was basically the only parent for four years. My grandmother on my fathers side was raised to be a doormat, she has gotten stronger, my father on the other hand believes that men and women are both good at different thing and they both work incredibly hard.

 

[SilverPhoenix]

I get what OP is saying, I've done quite a bit of reading on media and women's issues as well. Apologies, I go on a bit of random tangent here but I think it is on topic even if it comes out of the blue.

The aggressiveness or social issues caused by men become invisible in the media, and the women are focused on instead. For instance, if you look at a rape case and how it's reported in the media, it will say something like "Local woman raped." It makes the victim the focus instead of the person who did the raping--in essence pulling the focus away from the man and his aggressiveness, which is really what caused the issue. If a woman attacks someone, she is automatically the focus in media "Woman Attacks Man", but if a man attacks a woman, it'll just say "Woman Attacked." The violence perpetuated by men is pushed into invisibility and considered a non-issue. We need to push responsibility on to the responsible parties regardless of gender. And like another poster said, if I a man is assertive and a go-getter in his job, he's considered a cool guy. A woman who is assertive and a go-getter in her job? She may be considered a b-word or frowned upon. She is not "nice"--not a pushover, like we woman have been taught we are ideally "supposed" to be.

I think things are changing, but there certainly are still women and men out there who are taught to give in to what others want regardless of their own feelings, and that sort of behavior is still considered ideal, especially for women, when it really shouldn't be. I think it's a large part cultural and also partly a self-esteem problem. For instance, if a woman were to yell at a man in public for making unwanted advances, the woman is the one who would often be frowned at instead of the man for his behavior. The woman, in some capacity, would be expected to "take it" because it's just "men being men." It's this sort of culture that feminism is currently trying to fight against, but it can be difficult because a lot of these behaviors are ingrained in us by our culture and it's hard to fight when most people aren't even aware of the inherent sexism.

My mom taught me to be assertive and not to allow others to take advantage of me, and I'm thankful for that. I'm certainly polite and friendly and very compassionate/giving, but if I'm uncomfortable with something, I never give in to it. I've been in some situations with a lot of peer pressure, and I'm happy to say that I have always been able to say "No" if I didn't want to do something. I'm glad to live in a time where I am not forced to become a person I don't want to be. I definitely don't want children and will only be in a relationship with someone if I really genuinely like them and get along with them (I'm twenty-three and I've never been in a relationship, and I'm happy that way), and I am thankful to be a young adult in a time where I can make my own choices and I won't be forced into a mold of being the sort of woman that I do not want to be.

 

[WickedNerd]

I was raised to be a "nice" girl. On most days, I still act like a nice girl for the most part.

After the ex though, I had enough of catering to everyone on everything.

No. In the words of one of the Mythbusters, Adam Savage, "I reject your reality and substitute my own." I'll be nice, but that means you need to be nice too. By nice, I mean respect. I don't have to like everything you think or do, but I will respect your opinion and your right to do it (unless it's harmful to me or others). It's a two-way street though.

If you can't respect me and my individuality, my identity, then woe be onto you. If you can though, we're all good.

 

[KristyHall]

Quote:
this is off topic but I have to do it...

SQQQUUUEEEELLLLL!!! *tackles WickedNerd* this is the person I go on and on about on this forum, the one who does such good work with children and the needy.

My best friend in the whole world (I know it sounds high schoolish but I don't care)

I've been pushing her to get into poultry like me, or at least check it out.

 

[un-named]

As Dr. Phil said, "You teach people how to treat you."
Once I stopped being the 'nice' doormat boss who would cover everybody's shift and bend over backwards to shift schedules around so people could be off when they wanted... two things happened. I became happier and could actually get my own work done!
Although I still helped, the emloyees seemed to have more respect for me too.

 

[WickedNerd]

Quote:
this is off topic but I have to do it...

SQQQUUUEEEELLLLL!!! *tackles WickedNerd* this is the person I go on and on about on this forum, the one who does such good work with children and the needy.

My best friend in the whole world (I know it sounds high schoolish but I don't care)

I've been pushing her to get into poultry like me, or at least check it out.

ACK! *falls to the ground, properly tackled, but hugs back with a grin.*

You put me too high on a pedestal, babe. Besides, you're messing with my pseudo-bad girl image.

You finally suckered me into getting on the forums. Don't think I'm going to start raising chickens though. I just visit yours....and your occasional duck. CUTE!

Back on topic, at least slightly: I think we help to balance out each other on this whole good girl phenomenon. Don't you?

I've been tutoring a few students lately that are so completely stressed out with trying to please their parents, the girls more so than the boys. They're so focused on doing right by their parents that I start to feel as though they're close to ripping out their hair right in front of me. Having been one of these girls (as I'm sure you remember KristyHall), I sometimes wonder how much these kids are able to invest in their own identity and what they want. I'm not knocking my upbringing; I brought most of this stress on myself since mom backed off a lot when she saw how much I got upset over a B once in high school. However, I could have used a reality check, since this obsession carried on through high school and college. It wasn't until I started working that I really felt like I was coming into my own awareness...and I didn't like what I was. Anyone else feel like that?

 

[chickened]

After reading a few sentences of this post I said this person is single... women are not pushovers they can do alot of things that men cannot do, does that make them a pushover? no it makes them different. I diagree with this whole line of logic it will lead to a lonely life. IMO

Ever see someone fishing in a big boat that can hold several freinds? there is a reason they are fishing alone, always is.
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[SilverPhoenix]

I'm not saying women are pushovers at all! Rather the opposite. I was just commenting on media and the women's issues as a general thing, not to sound bitter or anti-social, LOL. I saw a documentary on this media issue and thought it was really interesting, so I was trying to summarize what I learned from it and have gathered since but maybe didn't do so well.

I'm single because I haven't found the right person, and I'm happy being single or I'll be happy if I find the right person. I don't think there's anything wrong with that! I have lots of good friends.

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[chickened]

I wasn't picking on you or anyone in particular but speaking in general, A victim is news because they can usually interview them and maybe show them the assailant is usually on the lam and unavailable for comment.

The issue I had and I use that loosely was the part about a woman is not supposed to put someones needs before her own. In a marriage you do it for each other all the time and that is when I figured you were not married as you have never experienced that aspect of a marriage relationship or were not aware of its' importance. I have been married for 23 years to the same woman and the first one I married, my wife suffers from no esteem problems or behavioral issues she loves me and I love her and we do things for each other that yes do require self sacrifice but it is a choice maybe not your choice but it is done willingly and with no regrets and for some media story bucking for ratings is the last outlet I would look for for information on relationships, a better choice is to ask a couple that has been married for 50 years what works if you really want to know before you try it. Marriage is a gamble of sorts and part of the fun is doing things you may be uncomfortable with or are outside your comfort zone.

 

[SilverPhoenix]

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I can appreciate that perspective! I understand and recognize that as a huge part of relationships and especially marriages. If one loves someone, of course they will be willing to make sacrifices and do uncomfortable things for the person they love. I think I'm thinking more along the lines of abusive situations, and people who make poor life decisions as an attempt to align with the desires of other people. Like what the original poster was talking about, where people become a "doormat" for others because their self-esteem is poor or because they believe they have to do these things in order to make people happy. Now that is certainly unhealthy, and sad...