Norway's Sad Tragedy

[EweSheep]

I agree!

 

[mom'sfolly]

Welsummer...I agree, some people just have no place in society. You take them out for the safety of all, not to punish or reform.

 

[Tuppemor]

Quote:
The Norwegian media is actually quite trustworthy in these matters, although they sometimes are inaccurate or interpret as they want it to be. In addition, we have a large collection of material from the killer himself, which has proven untrustworthy. A lot of the information in the manifesto is false, a result of his narcissistic need to seem more important than he is.

His parents divorced when he was a year old. Both later remarried, the father divorced again and ABB kept sporadic contact with his stepmother and a lot with his mother, even living in her apartment before moving to the farm. His father cut all contact with him when he was fifteen, according to ABB because he did not approve of his graffiti period, the actual reason is unknown as no one has said anything about it except ABB himself. The father has said that he hasn't spoken to him "since he was a normal boy" and that he wishes ABB had comitted suicide rather than mass murder.
As a child he was somewhat distant regarding other children. He participated socially and had a normal social life, but is described as a bit cold and distant by his childhood friends, although not raising any flags. He did show signs of "being off" (minor stuff like torturing ants and doing mischief one notch above the others), but not any more than many other children. Parents of friends seem to have viewed him in part as a troubled boy from a broken home, while others describe the home he shared with his mother as warm and stable.

His claim that he was a prominent graffiti artist has been denied by the community, his alleged high end connections have told he was a mere assistant and his friends claim to have seen a photo of him attending Norwegian Gay Pride in 2004 and never any girlfriends (they have heard many conquest stories but never seen proof of any relations). In his twenties he was well liked by many as a charismatic and charming character, but superficial and very preoccupied with money, brand clothing and looks. He has used steroids on and off since he was 15/16 and he did use steroids (among other things) in the time before the attacks. Friends say he went abroad and had work done on his nose, forehead and chin and that he was quite pleased with the result.
In recent years, he has been active in right wing politics, on discussion forums and making contact with smaller groups. They describe him as overzealous, convinced of the genius of his own ideas and a bit immature. But it must be said we have no shortage of self-proclaimed geniuses who believe they should be the next prime minister...
He advocates to "fellow knights" to wear makeup for photos and he went to a hair dresser two days before the attack. He also refused police photos because he didn't want the press using such images, he wants people to see his PR-pics. Despite this, he didn't mind the press taking pictures to and from court, he probably imagines he looks quite dashing......

Breivik on his way from court, smiling for the press:
http://www.adressa.no/multimedia/dynamic/01230/SA-MN_fengslingcop_1230207c.jpg
http://static.vg.no/uploaded/image/2011/7/26/behring.jpg


People from his past have started digging in their archives and several photos have emerged.
Elementary school: http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174519/17451921/jpg/active/978x.jpg
At his confirmation, around 16 years old: http://autonomotpol.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/anders_behring_breivik_konfirmasjon.jpg?w=443&h=700
About the same age, right before he started lifting weights and taking steroids: http://autonomotpol.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/anders_behring_breivik.jpg?w=798
In his twenties, at a party: http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/174/174689/17468920/jpg/active/978x.jpg


His psyche evaluators have now been appointed, his request for someone from outside of Norway have been denied.
Several people from various proffesions have already made informal evaluations to the media and the concensus so far is that he is extremely narcissistic.

To be quite honest, I'm thinking there's a huge "daddy issue" here that might have contributed. That and genetics, and -possibly- that the two are one and the same (something seems off to me about his father).
He has had no requests for contact from anyone and has not asked to make contact with anyone either.

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
The prison in the news is probably Halden, yes it's for real. Most prisons are of course much simpler, but we do have quite a few institutions that remind more of a restricted resort than a prison..

We have those here too. They are for the rich people that run out of money before they can get off. They call them country club prisons. They are for white collar crimes like stealing peoples life savings and minor infractions like that. The serious criminals like guys that sell joints on the corner go to the real prisons.

 

[punk-a-doodle]

punk-a-doodle: Thank you for posting that. I didn't really take the time to think about or explain that I was talking about legally sane in correlation with Norwegian law.

No problem Tuppemor. It's one of those really loaded phrases that still means about a bajillion things in different contexts or to different people. I suspect phrases related to mental states will probably become more specific or have their classification solidified more as we learn more about the brain and its possible interactions and abnormalities..and hopefully more effective treatments!

 

[welsummerchicks]

Requesting an evaluation from a health care professional outside Norway is a very strange thing for him to do as he is supposed to be defending Norway from all those muslims and foreigners.

But it can also lead to far more misinterpretation of his condition, and I think that's why he is doing it, not to avoid a person who is angry about a relative being killed.

Actually the legal term 'insane', in any legal system of any country, has very, very little to do with medical science, diagnosis or treatment of mental illness. It is a legal construct, a legal term, a legal concept, and a very old one at that. it is often extremely at odds with science and medical treatment. There are even very good reasons why it has to be at odds with medical science and treatment.

For many people the courts and the science and medicine of mental disease are so distant from each other, that that is a big part of the problem.

In the US, the movement is away from the 'not guilty by reason of insanity' to a 'guilty but insane' plea. And the trend is towards giving people the same length of sentence, regardless of mental disease or defect, and simply sending the criminal to a different unit in the prison, where medication is dispensed - and even then, the person has a legal right to refuse treatment in most cases.

 

[Tuppemor]

I have misinformed you, I believe. "Forvaring" or "sikring" which can be translated to "safe keeping" or "securing" is a type of sentence with 21 years max, but where the period can be extended by the courts for ten years at a time. It is used for people who are considered to still be a danger to society.
I was confused by the fact that we rarely employ it for more than the max sentence, but my guess is that this will be the outcome here. Unless he is charged with crimes against humanity, there may be other aspects there (like being sent to Hague), I don't know.

I don't think this guy will be released.. Good.

 

[welsummerchicks]

Yes, as I mentioned before.

And actually, the American press mentioned this 'Alternative Custody Arrangement' today (finally) - as continuing indefinitely and there appears to be agreement that it is necessary in his case.

Also, the American press has indicated that the shooter is making some extremely bizarre demands - such as he is demanding the Norwegian government step down, and that the other governments of Europe also step down, his demands even extend to cultural changes that are impossible for any authority to bring about.

A Norwegian authority was quoted as saying that the shooter does not seem to have "a realistic grasp on his situation" and that while some of his demands are more ordinary, most are irrational.

The American press has delighted in criticizing Norway's prison system.

Before they enjoy themselves too much, they should remember that Norway has a far lower recidivism rate(repeat crimes) than the United States.

Here are some materials that compare US and other country's criminal and prison figures. I have not attempted to verify any of the figures in any of these articles:

http://www.defendingjustice.org/pdfs/factsheets/9-Fact Sheet - US vs World.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recidivism

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Recidivism

http://www.rikosseuraamus.fi/25234.htm

keep in mind that policy changes are largely responsible for increased incarceration in USA over past few decades:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States

 

[Q9]

Quote:
The prison in the news is probably Halden, yes it's for real. Most prisons are of course much simpler, but we do have quite a few institutions that remind more of a restricted resort than a prison..

We have those here too. They are for the rich people that run out of money before they can get off. They call them country club prisons. They are for white collar crimes like stealing peoples life savings and minor infractions like that. The serious criminals like guys that sell joints on the corner go to the real prisons.

It's really unnerving when I agree with something you post, Dunkopf.

But you nailed it.