What do you guys think of these colts? Pics on page 3,6,7,8 & 12

[danischi24]

His back wasn't sore after I rode him bareback though I just walked apart from the blowup & I never washed him that day. I honestly do not think that the back pain & his sourness are connected. In many horses they are but then you can't fix them the way I have. He would still be going bananas instead of stopping his nonsense once I showed him that he couldn't get away with it. His back only hurts when it's wet. Before I wash him & once he is dry, he hardly reacts.
Yes, I trained horses for about 10 years & then I retired from it & recently, I've started a new profession.

 

[2pinkmom]

What temperature is the water? I might be way off here, but I could see having a reaction if cold water suddenly made the muscles contract.

 

[welsummerchicks]

Before, you said you trained horses for twenty years and then retired. Now it's ten.

Cold water? Probably not, it's often given as an excuse, but reaction to cold water is very brief - usually the muscles are already sore when someone says, 'oh, cold water made him sore'. The other one is 'oh it's a cold-backed horse'. Also probably not.

Also, a horse's back can't be sore when it's wet and not sore when it's dry.

Generally it is from an ill fitted saddle, riding leaned off to one side or otherwise sitting crooked in the saddle, leaning back too much sitting leaned off to one side with hands too high (the OP was doing all of these in her picture).

Also, it can be riding too long for the fitness of the horse(probably the commonest), doing unaccustomed work, such as too much sitting trot or cantering, swapping leads on a turn or cross cantering through corners, drilling or repeating an exercise too many times, or something congenitally wrong with the horse's back, or a poorly treated or untreated injury that causes chronic pain...such as when a horse gets cast, caught under a fence, catches its hind foot in its halter when rolling or scratching, or stops and its hind legs slide due to bad footing.

Most people don't realize when a horse's back is sore. When a horse isn't kept in shape and ridden frequently, his back is generally, going to be sore, even with the best fitted saddle. It's the cause of a lot of 'bad behavior'.

Adding saddle pads as the OP did, makes the problem worse, as it causes the saddle to sit higher off the back and rock more. Adding more padding is not the answer - rest and treatment is. The horse should not be ridden until all soreness is gone and the muscles are healed. Stretching, muscle relaxants, heat and rest are good treatments. Then correct the problems with the training, saddle fit or rider position to prevent it from occuring again.

The test for sore back muscles, running the knuckles down the back in the way described, is unreliable. Many horses will flinch from it when their backs aren't sore, and it in and of itself if done too forcefully causes pain. The better way to detect back soreness is with a much lighter touch over specific muscles, and watching carefully for the way the horse's gait is changed by the back soreness.

Fighting with the horse over something it won't do is a very, very common way to sore up the horse. The horse is tense and gets more and more tense as the fight goes on. The longest muscle is the back muscle and it gets the tightest.

The OP described having a big fight with the horse in which it resisted and she had to get after the horse - this is a common way the back is sored up on a young horse.

The 'fight' actually occurs because the back is already starting to hurt, the horse is getting tired, so it starts to fight back, and the rider loses his temper and fights back more.

One has to use one's judgement. It's best not to 'get into it' with the youngsters, not by backing off of a fight, but by not putting the horse in a position where it fights the rider.

You can always tell a good, knowledgeable, experienced trainer because no matter what horse he gets on, the horse just clocks along and there are no big scenes. Very little fighting, resistance, it's very, very rare occurance with a good trainer. The trainer knows how to work the horse to get something accomplished without making a scene.

Every horse he gets on 'suddenly behaves very well', and he knows when to get off, too, before the horse is tired, hurting and resentful.

The muscles of the horse's back develop slowly. A young horse with little riding has no back muscle. Their backs have to be treated with kid gloves. And once it is sored up once - it can become a chronic problem. Seen a good many young horses ruined that way.

The key with young horses is not overdoing it, and very gradually increasing riding time and work done and difficulty of work done, over a period of many months, as the muscles gradually develop.

 

[tdgill]

to no one in particular, but this thread in general. I'm done....

"If it weren't for electricity we'd all be watching television by candlelight." George Gobol.

 

[danischi24]

Please read properly. I have over 20 years horse experience, 10 of which I trained horses. I was not a professional horse trainer the day after I started riding. It took years to build up the necessary experience. He is very well behaved except for one incident each time I ride where he gets cheeky because he doesn't want to leave other horses or they are neighing to him. Then he bolts, bucking & rearing. I pull him up hard & keep working him & he is a sweety for the rest of the ride. There's no way to stop him before he does it-I've tried. The owner rode him after me today while I tuned one of his other horses & he was very impressed by how well he is going. He was not sore after riding but I would bet my bottom dollar that if I had hosed him, he would have cringed. The pain he shows only lasts from the washing until the water warms/he is dry. Not sure exactly when it stops but I've felt him when he's just dried & he was fine. I think I have my answer. I'm just gonna wait until they put new shoes on. Save me the expense & tell me if the forging will continue.

 

[apdan]

So I have been reading this thread for awhile and I am not trying to be mean so don't take this the wrong way please! But... it seems to me that people are trying to offer you advice which is what you have been asking for. However, when they tell you what they think you come back with an answer saying they are wrong and you have been doing this for years. When you ask for someones advice you take it but using the advice or not is up to you! Don't go back on the person for giving you their advice/opinion. Everyone has there own styles of riding, training, and everything else. Everyone is entitled to there own opinions. Using the opinion or not is up to you, just remember you asked for the opinion......

 

[tdgill]

thanks to all who made this post worth reading. Nice finishing touch welsummer!

 

[welsummerchicks]

I'm very kumbayah-let's-all-sing-together til people start talking about mistreating horses, then you have my full attention. Pain in a young horse's back from incorrect tack or riding is not a matter of 'riding style' or 'opinion'. It is a disorder, a condition, and it needs to be treated, and not by more riding. Keep riding = make it worse. On the other hand, incorrectly testing for back pain and making groundless assumptions as to why the horse might be 'crabby' is also a problem, as is 'getting into it' with a young just broke horse. Your 20, oh now 10 yrs of 'professional horse training experience', would have taught you that.

 

[danischi24]

I only asked for opinions on the horses, not my training style. Read the topic before running your mouths. If you guys can't quit being pests & trying to find things to complain about without the smallest bit of firsthand knowledge of the situation, I'd rather you moved on & didn't reply. Seriously, off you go

I'd close this topic except for the fact that I'm posting updates for some people who want to see the horse.
I rode him again today & led a kid on him (couldn't care less of what my critics have to say about that & yes, we are insured

). He went very well at walk & trot with me. When I got off, his back was perfect. Not even the small amount of ducking of yesterday. However, yet again, when washed with cold water, he ducked to pressure afterward but stopped once dry. Now, I know I'm slouching & that his front legs look bad (which they aren't)

 

[WIChookchick]

oh, he looks so much better in that pic!
I would keep riding in the english.. and if you can.. try putting a linament in a bucket with warm water, and don't hose him off, rinse him off slowly and rubbing the muscles
and then rinsing with warm water.. don't do the pressure test.. use a sweat/water scraper and then after he starts to dry.. try the soreness test.

I think you have a winner, if you can get his feet done, wait a few days (soreness) and then ride him again, either western or english.. and again. keep using linament diluted in water.

It may help..
hope this helps
Carol