Fluffy Butt Acres: Stories of our flock

[notabitail]

French drains
French fries
French kissing
French seams
French's mustard

Do any of these actually have anything to do with France?

French fries were first cooked in grease, not France, so no.

 

[ChicoryBlue]

I am sorry you went through this. I understand she has to say what she said but there were kinder ways to go about doing so. Her perspective and ours as byc keepers are unfortunately at odds (to some degree) with one another.

There was a time when vets felt pretty much the same way about dogs and cats. We can hope that someday the same understanding and empathy will emerge for those of us who keep chickens and other “livestock” as pets.

For what it’s worth, I think you did the right thing for Anna and for your flock. I would also like to thank you for sharing your story as I think it is a reminder to be grateful for the help and knowledge a professional can offer us but also to use caution when choosing our words or what tests we consent to with our pets.

Thank you. One vet for sure does know they are pets and relates to them that way. Not this one!
Yes, a big lesson in being careful!

She sounds mean!
But good news they are all well now.
Useful fact that I hope you never need - private labs are not required to report AI. Practicing vets are required to. I asked the Texas lab about this specifically.
I got comfortable about eating the eggs after Baytril - I don’t have anything to hand but can look for stuff later if you are nervous about it.
Was this the same vet that didn’t call you back?

It is an organization with several vets, I think there are five that see birds. We’ve seen three different vets, this one for the second time. The first time was because she was available to euthanize Peanut, and she looked at Butters too. She was kind to them then, but I thought there was something different, odd about her manner with me, and upon reflection, this encounter confirmed it for me. She doesn’t really have an interpersonal give-and-take sensitivity. It was all on an intellectual, logical, almost purely ideological, zealous level. She didn’t seem to ever acknowledge or address my deep concern and worry for Anna and the other pullets, & how I was trying to be very careful with their care. When it came to avian flu she seemed clueless or heartless or both. Couldn’t she see the horror of the consequences, of everyone getting killed, and all my neighbors pets & egg sale chickens getting killed, if one of mine tests positive?

The other two vets have been very different. Can’t say they wouldn’t have the same points but they both act as knowledgeable collaborators with me in care, much more personable and aware of my concerns, and practical. One baby-talks to the chickens which I find a bit much, but it comes from a good place. Both of these vets have chickens as pets with benefits, one also has meat chickens I think. So they know the backyard situation.

Oh, and this suspect foreigners selling dodgy drugs is BS as it was legally available for our use up until 4 months ago.

Right, like those fly-by-night U.K. & European manufacturers?

I thought, “Well I think I got good stuff because it’s been working great for her, and what I got was all over the place sold for parrots and budgies, it can’t be that bad.” I didn’t know about the ban in June until I searched BYC later.

She had said it wasn’t authorized for poultry, and I nodded and said “it’s off-label” and she said “No, it’s ILLEGAL!!!” and I didn’t have any good response, but she didn’t care to hear one and kept going on anyway. I kept coming back to thinking to myself that’s too bad it’s illegal because it was a good thing I had done for her and now our options are more limited. She couldn’t eat or drink without help, she was effectively blind. This bird was really suffering. The vet didn’t seem to process that.

I wasn’t being irresponsible with it either, little Ida is sick too but I haven’t treated her because she’s acting pretty well and I’m hoping she will get through it okay. She sounds terrible though, her peeps sound like a donkey braying now, and I wonder. Keeping an eye on everyone.

I’d be interested in a second opinion from another veterinarian (one whose bed side manor is not so cold. )

I don’t need another opinion yet. I will not see this one again if I can help it. I know who to ask for now. But I will not see a vet unless it’s really necessary.

How aggressive . Congratulations on staying calm! While I understand the reaction, I think the manner in which it was expressed very inappropriate. I’m the first to agree that antibiotics should come with a prescription only, but I don't see what she thought she would achieve by having such an attitude with you, except not wanting to see her again. And besides, it was in part because the vet did not call you back that you began the Baytril course.

I had not heard about Campylobacter and Baytril, so it is interesting that she explained this. It's worth looking more into.

In France where the list of antibiotics approved for layers is very short and any prescription by a vet needs to be mentioned for biosurveillance, the vet we are seeing tells us to do one month egg withdrawal when she prescribes an unauthorized antibiotics and there is no information. She has mostly prescribed children's antibiotics, but also rabbit sulfa.. for Coccidiosis. When I needed to get antibiotics for Piou-piou urgently as it looked like her wound could be infected , she actually prescribed them by mail after having seen just a photo before our physical appointment, because we couldn't get her there before a week.
She did this even though vets are closely controlled on what they prescribe. So I believe the vet you saw possibly may be more used to seeing chickens that are treated as livestock and thinking of global flock health, more than individual pets.

Butters passing does not seem at all like it was avian flu. And it's a fact that Anna responded to Baytril ; it seems very unlikely it would have helped her recover from AI!

So sorry you had to go through that on top of the rest.

Right, I will not see this one again, and I’ll not see anyone unless it really calls for it. Your vet there sounds rational and a really good resource!

It’s not me being all calm and collected. More like stunned. And eventually sensing this person was not seeing me, that it was useless to argue with her from a compassionate point of view, as I made attempts to illustrate how the Corid treatment was having no effect on Anna’s symptoms and explain my motivation. But I was stunned at the level of scolding, at her manner not really inviting a conversation about what and why I did what I did. It was more of an interrogation and then it became a lecture.

Yes, as if she was someone speaking from a national program to control problems with resistant organisms, when these antibiotics have been used preventatively, something that’s much more common problem in practices on big farms, not for someone with five pet chickens (that had just been six. She barely acknowledged it when I informed her Butters had just died, just a nod).

One would need to be using Baytril INDISCRIMINATELY and for long term to cause Campilobactor resistance. Your one time use of it for an obvious illness which they were not willing to aggressively treat was justified. You chick is teeny tiny and cannot be allowed to just shrivel up and die.

No Baytril is not a permitted poultry antibiotic but you can bet my sweet little fluffy tush that is being used ‘off label’ all the time.

In fact 99% of the stuff we treat our poultry for is ‘off label’ and or illegal for use in poultry. La-te-da, if it were my chook I would treat. You did the right thing.

Furthermore I came across a study that was done for treating Mycoplasma and Baytril was more effective in treating it than the other drugs.

Many time Vets do not have the time to do individual research on treatments and thus do not know what is being done.

This article compared three different antibacterial agents against mycoplasma

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18679898/m

Seems that the UK is further ahead of the US in poultry and Baytril

https://www.noahcompendium.co.uk/?id=-479259

And actually sulfa drugs are to treat coccidiosis not mycoplasma as far as I know of, Bob would know better likely.

And lastly here is some heavy ready regarding use of such said antimicrobial meds up for discussion here, nowhere do they ever mention campylobacter resistance….

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3801280/

ANYWAYS….

YOU DID THE RIGHT THING. Do not second guess yourself. The Vet is just covering her arse.

Thank you for all this, I appreciate your gumption & experience! Its affirming to hear you rant, and it helps. Thanks!

 

[Ponypoor]

Yes. She is a Legbar. Her color is opal or Isabel.
In many pictures she looks white but she is more a soft silvery grey.

View attachment 3654536

She reminds me so much of the Azurs

 

[LhickenChicken]

Very pretty with the sunlight colors on the trees!

That was when I was taking a picture of her for the Feathers Of Fall photo contest. Here is the picture I entered. I had to get up at sunrise to get it.

Another slightly easier one. I liked this one so much I made it my profile picture. I took this one at noon. Aurora is a very patient and fashionable model. Her muffs and beard, oh my her beard, it is so fluffy!

 

[Ponypoor]

I’m sorry your honor, but I can’t serve jury duty, because my cat is in the basement fishing.

Tell me, in the US is it some sort of offence to throw away any official document mailed to you requesting information that may lead to some jury duty? Oh not for me, a friend who chucked his, I wondered if there was some sort of offence to do so…?

My duty to pay tax
Really Larry? Are you starving? That’s Lulus supper!

Penelope and Fluffy trying to decide should I stay or should I go….

 

[Ponypoor]

That was when I was taking a picture of her for the Feathers Of Fall photo contest. Here is the picture I entered. I had to get up at sunrise to get it.
View attachment 3654567
Another slightly easier one. I liked this one so much I made it my profile picture. I took this one at noon. Aurora is a very patient and fashionable model. Her muffs and beard, oh my her beard, it is so fluffy!
View attachment 3654568

She sure does have a lovely beard and muffs

I get up every day before 6am cold in the winter brrrr but the chickens have to be fed!

 

[notabitail]

Tell me, in the US is it some sort of offence to throw away any official document mailed to you requesting information that may lead to some jury duty? Oh not for me, a friend who chucked his, I wondered if there was some sort of offence to do so…?

My duty to pay tax
Really Larry? Are you starving? That’s Lulus supper!
View attachment 3654574

Penelope and Fluffy trying to decide should I stay or should I go….
View attachment 3654575

Yes it is. Not sure if it applies to those who throw their mail away without looking at it.
Did I tell you the sales ads here now have coupons that are PRINTED that can only be used if you download a dumb app to your stupidphone, I mean smartphone? Such a waste of paper.

 

[notabitail]

She sure does have a lovely beard and muffs

I get up every day before 6am cold in the winter brrrr but the chickens have to be fed!

6AM? Too early.

 

[RoyalChick]

Thank you. One vet for sure does know they are pets and relates to them that way. Not this one!
Yes, a big lesson in being careful!

It is an organization with several vets, I think there are five that see birds. We’ve seen three different vets, this one for the second time. The first time was because she was available to euthanize Peanut, and she looked at Butters too. She was kind to them then, but I thought there was something different, odd about her manner with me, and upon reflection, this encounter confirmed it for me. She doesn’t really have an interpersonal give-and-take sensitivity. It was all on an intellectual, logical, almost purely ideological, zealous level. She didn’t seem to ever acknowledge or address my deep concern and worry for Anna and the other pullets, & how I was trying to be very careful with their care. When it came to avian flu she seemed clueless or heartless or both. Couldn’t she see the horror of the consequences, of everyone getting killed, and all my neighbors pets & egg sale chickens getting killed, if one of mine tests positive?

The other two vets have been very different. Can’t say they wouldn’t have the same points but they both act as knowledgeable collaborators with me in care, much more personable and aware of my concerns, and practical. One baby-talks to the chickens which I find a bit much, but it comes from a good place. Both of these vets have chickens as pets with benefits, one also has meat chickens I think. So they know the backyard situation.

Right, like those fly-by-night U.K. & European manufacturers?

I thought, “Well I think I got good stuff because it’s been working great for her, and what I got was all over the place sold for parrots and budgies, it can’t be that bad.” I didn’t know about the ban in June until I searched BYC later.

She had said it wasn’t authorized for poultry, and I nodded and said “it’s off-label” and she said “No, it’s ILLEGAL!!!” and I didn’t have any good response, but she didn’t care to hear one and kept going on anyway. I kept coming back to thinking to myself that’s too bad it’s illegal because it was a good thing I had done for her and now our options are more limited. She couldn’t eat or drink without help, she was effectively blind. This bird was really suffering. The vet didn’t seem to process that.

I wasn’t being irresponsible with it either, little Ida is sick too but I haven’t treated her because she’s acting pretty well and I’m hoping she will get through it okay. She sounds terrible though, her peeps sound like a donkey braying now, and I wonder. Keeping an eye on everyone.


I don’t need another opinion yet. I will not see this one again if I can help it. I know who to ask for now. But I will not see a vet unless it’s really necessary.



Right, I will not see this one again, and I’ll not see anyone unless it really calls for it. Your vet there sounds rational and a really good resource!

It’s not me being all calm and collected. More like stunned. And eventually sensing this person was not seeing me, that it was useless to argue with her from a compassionate point of view, as I made attempts to illustrate how the Corid treatment was having no effect on Anna’s symptoms and explain my motivation. But I was stunned at the level of scolding, at her manner not really inviting a conversation about what and why I did what I did. It was more of an interrogation and then it became a lecture.

Yes, as if she was someone speaking from a national program to control problems with resistant organisms, when these antibiotics have been used preventatively, something that’s much more common problem in practices on big farms, not for someone with five pet chickens (that had just been six. She barely acknowledged it when I informed her Butters had just died, just a nod).


Thank you for all this, I appreciate your gumption & experience! Its affirming to hear you rant, and it helps. Thanks!

Well lesson learned about not seeing her again.
There are a couple of individual vets I avoid too and one who I like, but who one of my cats has a thing against!

 

[RoyalChick]

She reminds me so much of the Azurs

I hadn’t seen that likeness. Show me a picture of the Azures - they probably have Legbar in them.