Fluffy Butt Acres: Stories of our flock

[Aussie-Chookmum]

Thank you for being kind, but I don't deserve it. Those three chickens lost their lives because I thought I knew best.

They were called Alice (a leghorn), Dora and Nigella (production reds).

We were all beginners once MJ.
My first 4 chooks probably all could have lived longer if I knew then what I know now. Of course I'm still learning lots.

 

[Aussie-Chookmum]

Some Observations from Today

Phyllis can really fly. 5 feet straight up to the roof. I was shocked.

Phyllis is definately not afraid of humans. I picked her up 3 times today by putting my hand in front of her and she stepped right on it.

Phyllis is also pretty smart. She knew where to roost tonight. 3 times she came back out and tried to get the others to follow her to the roost. They never did.

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Aurora and Phyllis met across three wire today. No flaring, no squawking, a quick look and then on their ways.

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Sydney has herself some neck. Sometimes it's not there.......
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Other times, lots of neck!

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Phyllis D is adorable. There's a leader in the making. I wonder if she will be in charge of her "sub-flock" under Lilly?

 

[RoyalChick]

I'll take a chance. What I'll write is not by any means a popular viewpoint. There is plenty of evidence to back up what I write but it would take pages and hours to set it all out. Needless to say it's in the book.
Chickens are not flock creatures. Chickens are tribal and have been for thousands of years.
Given a choice, chickens will live with their own breed, or whatever looks and acts most similar, or those they are genetically related to.
(birds of a feather flock together while sounding a bit trite is accurate)
Jungle fowl live in small family groups comprising a rooster a hen and for a period of time, their offspring. The four main types of jungle fowl do not mix despite living in the same geographical area.
The range of each tribe can be anything from a couple of acres to five acres.
Jungle fowl are territorial and defend their territory against other tribes, often dying in the fight.
People with a lack of knowledge or an agenda will tell you the behaviour of their ancestors has been bred out of the modern chicken. The evidence suggests this isn't true. There are a number of studies that found, given the freedom, chickens will revert to their natural behaviour.
If you read a lot of posts here on BYC you will find a lot of anecdotal evidence where people will write their chickens tend to form breed groups withing a 'flock'. Usually this gets buried or not picked up on because it is not a popular view. Many people want different coloured eggs of a variety of breeds and what is good for the chicken gets overruled by what the keeper wants.
Of course, with chicken sites such as BYC part of the ethos is you can buy lots of pretty breeds and keep them all together.
Given the territory ranged by feral and jungle fowl the idea that a chicken can be content with ten square foot per bird is ludicrous. This is why many people where I live have free range flocks. They've been keeping chickens for hundreds of years.
My study/observations/experiments are about how 'domestic breeds, given the opportunity, return to their natural behaviour.
I'm in contact with a few other keepers who are also investigating this. Broadly we all see the same behaviour.
So, just like with humans, if you force chickens to live together with different breeds in close confinement, being intelligent creatures the survival of the group becomes important and they learn how to rub along. This is what the so called pecking order is.
Here each tribe makes use of an acre of home territory. If I add a tribe, then the used acreage increases.
The males here all fight each other. It's not about hens; it's about territory and resources.
Another much vaunted myth. Hens pick their roosters so there isn't much point in fighting over them. The winner doesn't get more hens.
There is lots and lots more.

Very clear and fascinating! I get it now.
On the topic of space per chicken i could not agree more. When I took over my (then 4) from the school project they were in a coop with attached run that was according to the ‘guidelines’ of space per chicken. It was clear long before they were fully grown that the whole 10sqaure feet thing was ludicrously small. And at that stage I had never even met a chicken face to face before. It was just obvious as an animal person. So the chicken palace has over 10 times that space and I let them forage freely when I am out gardening. I wish I could let them roam free all the time but the experience losing Scary has put me off that whole idea.

 

[Shadrach]

Very clear and fascinating! I get it now.
On the topic of space per chicken i could not agree more. When I took over my (then 4) from the school project they were in a coop with attached run that was according to the ‘guidelines’ of space per chicken. It was clear long before they were fully grown that the whole 10sqaure feet thing was ludicrously small. And at that stage I had never even met a chicken face to face before. It was just obvious as an animal person. So the chicken palace has over 10 times that space and I let them forage freely when I am out gardening. I wish I could let them roam free all the time but the experience losing Scary has put me off that whole idea.

It's a difficult problem.
My views on chickens come from my years working on my Uncles farm. He had free range chickens, four or five groups at any one time. Each group had a rooster and a couple or three hens. If you asked him he would say he didn't keep them; they just lived there. That's about my current view. I don't keep the chickens here. I have no sense of ownership and not much of control.
There is a fundamental problem that is very difficult to resolve. With freedom comes risk. It's this way for every species. I have no idea how the survival rate here compares to either feral populations or jungle fowl. What I have had to accept is I have to try to accommodate their natural method of re-population. It gets forgotten that chickens don't lay eggs so we can have breakfast or bake cakes. So, I have to have roosters and I have to let the hens sit and hatch.
Ideally I would manage them like my friend with his Fayoumies and let them roost in the trees and provide food and medical attention essentially.
Of course, people will say they can't do this because of predators and climate.
If the climate is that hostile then perhaps one shouldn't be keeping chickens in the first place.
The fear of predation is something that gets attached to chickens because of their status as perceived by humans. We don't tend to worry about the wildlife around us in this respect.
Unfortunately from there on one gets into a circular debate. Some will say that the modern chicken needs us to 'manage' them in order for them to survive. The counter arguement is of course, the longer we try to manage them and produce all the different breeds, the less likely they are able to survive if given their freedom. Note that none of this is the chickens fault. Also, in the right climate, feral populations of what once were modern domestic chickens seem to fare quite well and thrive to the point where humans then decide they are a nuisance. Poor chicken can't win.
Underlying all the above is the 'I want' on the part of humans and the assumption they have the right. I'm not comfortable with that.
I'll get off the soapbox now.

 

[BY Bob]

How horrible for you Micstrachan.
When you thought you were doing her a kindness, it must have been quite traumatic.
I'm so sorry that happened. I had no idea either. Thank you for sharing

That is a great lesson for all. I hope everyone is learning from my errors as well.

 

[BY Bob]

Many people want different coloured eggs of a variety of breeds and what is good for the chicken gets overruled by what the keeper wants.
Of course, with chicken sites such as BYC part of the ethos is you can buy lots of pretty breeds and keep them all together

Couldn't post this on @Ribh thread? Cut me to the quick.

 

[BY Bob]

We were all beginners once MJ.
My first 4 chooks probably all could have lived longer if I knew then what I know now. Of course I'm still learning lots.

It's a shame we have to learn this way. I think BY Chivkens can help provided you get connected to the right people. The sad fact is that chickens are a food source. Almost everything of enough size and ability eats chicken.

 

[BY Bob]

Also, in the right climate, feral populations of what once were modern domestic chickens seem to fare quite well and thrive to the point where humans then decide they are a nuisance. Poor chicken can't win.

That is what you see in Hawaii. They are everywhere despite predators. Left to their own chickens are very resourceful.

 

[Shadrach]

That is what you see in Hawaii. They are everywhere despite predators. Left to their own chickens are very resourceful.

It's like that in lots of places Bob. There are feral populations of Minorcan Blacks in Minorca.
China apparently has quite a few in various regions. My Finnish friend monitors feral population in Finland. There is a small feral population of del Pratts a few miles North of me.

 

[Shadrach]

It's a shame we have to learn this way. I think BY Chivkens can help provided you get connected to the right people. The sad fact is that chickens are a food source. Almost everything of enough size and ability eats chicken.

Can you name me an animal that isn't?