Fluffy Butt Acres: Stories of our flock

[Shadrach]

@Shadrach,

I understand your point about the severity of pecking. Here, though, it was definitely aggression (? the reason for it), and while Dotty clearly wasn't hurt, there has been documented evidence of increasing likelihood of egg issues if a hen is not allowed to lay for an extended period of time when they need/want to lay. Additionally, the stress this situation incurs on Dotty, if it continues over a number of days, can also cause issues. Given all of the health issues @RoyalChick has endured with her hens, she has every right to be concerned and to want to minimize the conflict, whatever the cause. I can't speak for @RoyalChick in terms of how she perceived the pecking in terms of severity (i.e. hardness of peck), but she did say that Dotty wasn't bloody. Again, imo, the real issue(s) regarding the behavior, is 2 fold: Dotty not able to lay when she needs to, and the amount of sustained stress she endures. Both of these can negatively impact her health in a variety of ways, the least of which would be to weaken her immune system...that alone is enough to worry about given the stress of sudden cold weather after a very mild fall.

@RoyalChick has quite the sizeable coop/run for the few chickens she has....so maybe just adding some hiding spaces/visual occlusion may alleviate this.

And, yes, I understand that a wild flock would occupy a couple of acres...but that is all about resources and resource protection. Here they have plenty of resources to go around and they have been a 'flock' for an extended period of time. So, why the sudden dominance/pecking order issues and why to this degree. (The pecks & grabs were quite strong! If you notice, one of the 'grabs' was strong enough to almost pull Dotty off her feet.)

I would be interested in reading the documented evidence should you have a link to hand.
I am not discounting that if a hen doesn't lay an egg for a particular length of time it may cause some discomfort, but long term health damage...
I would want to know how long. Hens have laid two eggs in quick succesion, mainly due to the first egg getting stuck and the other being delivered right behind it. It is far from ideal but with the hens I've known to have this happen there have been no long term ill effects that I've been able to see.
The issue is that one hen is preventing another from laying, if that is what Dotty intended when she entered the nest box. Dotty could have gone elsewhere to lay the egg. I have seen hundreds of such egg laying disputes if that is what that was. The tribes used to form queues for a particular nest box and in many cases get in the nest box a fight over who can lay. I've had hens get evicted from a nest box, go and call their rooster for support and end up with the rooster and both hens in the nest box scrpping over who covers annd eggs that are already there and how much room each is allowed to lay an egg.
This to me is normal chicken behaviour.
As for the aggression, we don't really know what the problem is and one would have to spend some time observing the behhaviour between the two in other situations to make any reasonable assessment.

 

[Shadrach]

I know this going to cost me more tax, but I couldn’t resist.

To be forgiven for that you'll need a thread of pictures.

 

[Marie2020]

Happy Thanksgiving too everyone celebrating today

 

[Shadrach]

Want a change in coop dynamics? Put a big mirror in the coop (unbreakable one) and watch the change in attitude!

Strangely that does seem to work for a period of time at least

 

[BY Bob]

Thank you for this. I am worried about stress for Dotty.
I don’t have the experience to judge the level of violence - all I know is Dotty is able to pick herself up and carry on running around. But several times Maggie physically dragged her out of the box. That seems more than trivial.
I read @Shadrach’s article but I am not failing to understand a warning peck. This is clearly an aggressive peck and looks like a grab. A while ago I caught video of Maggie grabbing and seemingly mating with a Roadrunner which I assume was also aggression rather than gender fluidity. This is different in that there is a clear goal - to get Dotty out of the nest boxes.
We had a day of calm yesterday.
I will watch another day but if it happens again I think an alternative box is worth a try.

I starting to think this was a bad day for Maggie and she vented on poor Dotty. Aurora has those days. So does Sansa. Lilly no longer does but she used to everyone once in a while.

 

[BY Bob]

I've read the report a bit differently it seems.


In this case, there was hemorrhage within the overlying subcutaneous tissue and at the base of the skull which may suggest trauma. While there was evidence of trauma in the head region, there were no obvious fractures of the bones indicating the brain exposure was a pre-existing condition and not secondary to trauma. In addition to this finding, there were masses

Yes you are. The report is very clear that the hole was a pre-existing condition and NOT a result of trauma. Read the next sentence. The hemorrhage was only in the skin and no deeper. Trauma from a hawk strike,
for example, would be much more extensive than just in the skin. If the hole was created by trauma there would be evidence of skull fracture. There is none.

 

[BY Bob]

To be forgiven for that you'll need a thread of pictures.

I agree with this. I'm going to need photos of everyone!

 

[BY Bob]

Happy Thanksgiving All

 

[featherhead007]

Jaffa would have known exactly where she was and what she was doing.
As I understand it, it doesn't freeze where Alex lives. Doesn't even get that cold so I would think thhat the hen would have been absolutely fine sitting and hatching.

Fine for her maybe, but makes daddy a nervous wreck!

 

[Shadrach]

I’ve been biting my tongue for so long now on Bob’s recent disasters.

It seems to me that many of those who have commented have completely lost touch with reality.

I understand that many want to be supportive, but the for everybody to learn from this unfortunate situation a realistic assessment has to be better than the drama fuelled almost hysteria that I’ve read in some of the posts.

I feel terrible for Bob. The whole business has been one tragedy after another and Bob has done his utmost to try and turn the situation around. I’ve been in similar situation myself a number of times and in retrospect it became obvious that the one option I did not want to take, and did not take, was the right option all along.

I consider Bob to be a friend and as such I feel I have a duty to tell him the truth, unpalatable thought it may be. There is also the opportunity for us all to learn something here and while people emotions and wants are valid, burying the truth under a deluge of knee jerk emotion is not going to help anyone.

I’ll take the risk of being highly unpopular, but please, look at the evidence before you engage the emotions.

Bob had a small group of mixed breed hens that despite the usual conflicts managed to get along well enough to lead what seemed to be to be a reasonably contented life. Bob judging from the tone of his posts and the pictures he posted was also content.

Then Mrs By Bob got a bad case of the I wants and disregarding his better judgement Bob got Phyllis, a single hen of a breed which some already know are genetically damaged through breeding for looks rather than health and longevity.

Not only is Phyllis a damaged breed, but many people who know something about breeds and keeping mixed flocks will tell you, don’t mix certain breeds. There is some information on which breeds are likely to fare better kept together, but mixing Polish chickens with “standard” breeds is not recommended. It’s not that it cannot be done but the odds are stacked against it from the start.

This is just one of the reasons that many of the chicken keepers with generations of experience that I have spoken to say do not mix breeds. It’s not something that the backyard hobby keeper wants to hear, but a great deal of experience has gone into this advice.

Phyllis was rejected by Bob’s original group from day one. Unfortunately, with the help and encouragement of some on this forum Phyllis became a bit of an icon. This just made it even harder for Bob to do what he should have done as soon as he realised that Phyllis was not going to fit and consequently was likely to lead a rather lonely and isolated life subject to the bulling we have all seen inn the videos and reports of in Bob’s post.

What Bob should have done was re-home Phyllis in a flock of her breed.

I mentioned at the time that trying to introduce Phyllis was likely to end in disaster and while it gives me no pleasure to be proven right, it has been one long train crash of a disaster.

Bob’s attempts to recover from the initial mistake are documented throughout the thread; the eggs, the sitting plans, the new coop and finally the two Polish chicks Legertha and Sylvie.

Note that Phyllis is still an outcast despite all Bob’s efforts.

We seem to have created a society where no blame or accountability can be attached to any organisation/group or individual for their actions, yet on this site I read a lot about people taking responsibility for the creatures they have acquired.

If you read back through this thread there are a number of posts that Bob has made that indicate that Mrs Bob cannot be relied upon to do what is necessary to make sure the chickens are fed, cared for and made secure at night.

There is also the post where Bob writes that he told Mrs Bob not to let Legertha and Sylvie out of the coop. She did despite what Bob said. One can surmise that the genetic problem would have made itself apparent in time anyway but that isn’t really the point. One can equally surmise that if she hadn’t let them out Legertha would still be alive and Sylvie would still have a sister.

I also find it a rather perturbing that contributors to this thread have consoled and complimented Bob on the assumption that Legertha, and by inference Sylvie, have had a wonderful life.

They had no mother present to teach them and keep them safe while they were chicks. They spent their early life in a cardboard box, the rest of the world concealed from them. For them Bob and perhaps Mrs Bob were the only contact with other creatures and had no way of knowing that they were chickens. No wonder they peeped relentlessly. Those peeps ime experience of chicks are calls for their mother/or maybe any other creature they could relate to. I’ve found numerous “lost” chicks that got separated from their mothers by just those calls. I wrote a very sad story about an incubator orphan called Cheepy who made those calls incessantly.

When they did eventually see the outside world it was from a cage where adult hens would come by and attempt to fence fight through the wire or peck at them.

Once moved into their new coop Phyllis made it quite clear that they were unwelcome and all the chicks had was each other. Sylvie doesn’t even have that now. She will probably have seen her sister lying dead.

Not by any stretch of the imagination can I see any of these three having had a great life.

Look at the videos. Look at Bob’s face. The stress and the worry is blatantly obvious and all the time people are applying pressure with their go Phyllis posts and their suggestions of what he can do with the chicks. Phyllis and the chicks is all Bob posts about now but he has other hens, what about them?

Please, if you are Bob’s friend consider how difficult the pressure you are all putting on him to succeed with this endeavour makes it for him to come to the right decisions. Tell him the truth based on the evidence and make it easier for him do do what’s best for him and the chickens; all of them.