Fluffy Butt Acres: Stories of our flock

[bgmathteach]

@rural mouse Did Thing turn up this morning? I'm hoping against hope that she was just hiding.

 

[featherhead007]

Does the animal KNOW that?

Sure they do!

 

[featherhead007]

Jaffar, he Cocorico! Good little rooster!

 

[featherhead007]

Is anyone aware that it’s worldwide smile day today? Well, it is! So make sure you get someone to smile today.
(Don’t count on me for that, my jokes are dry today)

 

[rural mouse]

@rural mouse Did Thing turn up this morning? I'm hoping against hope that she was just hiding.

Nothing as of opending coop today, but light was straggling in after leaving for work, and mostly cloudy. Won't be home during best daylight until Sunday. Evenings, have been climbing around looking for signs and not so much as a single feather (hers are rather distinctive). Even if somethin grabbed her during the night, I would expect to find some feathers. So far, nothing, but will keep looking.

 

[ChicoryBlue]

So the vet I saw immediately went into a scold / rant about my use of Baytril, kind of as I expected because it wasn't a plan agreed to with them, but because it is illegal, as she kept emphasizing, and asked where I got it, if it's from a foreign company it might not be what it's supposed to be, and the danger of resistance is really bad, and getting resistant campylobacter is really bad....She also said since there's no known withdrawal time and I should never eat any of the eggs from any of them (I think she thought I treated them all and I said only Anna's been treated).

She said if it is/was mycoplasma that it is a problem in my flock management. I said I don't know how they got it; I didn't get a chance to give a history - maybe Queenie had it? - but it could be wild songbirds in the run, or even the UPS guy (who has told me he routinely delivers where there are chickens strolling in the driveway); she said that the truck tires wouldn't transfer it after a few miles on the road, and I said what about his shoes? And she said nothing. I wasn't sure where this talk was going.

I think she made some valid points but was lacking in the empathy department, or if it's not empathy exactly, a sympathetic understanding of backyard chickens as pets and what that means, and how sick Anna appeared to me, her not getting better for more than a week, and the symptoms of swollen sinuses and her scratching her head and eyes and drawing blood. She did say she thought she did see red in the conjunctiva of Anna's eyes from the pictures but it's hard with pictures.

She suggested that she would have wanted to test Anna and then treat for specific diseases found, and for mycoplasma the treatment would have been sulfa_______, not Baytril, and I agreed that would be good, but that I didn't want her tested, and she asked why and I said b/c of the possibility of avian flu.

Here I'm paraphrasing because I only vaguely remember her speech, I couldn't bear to hear it I guess, so clinically, sternly and coldly, though I know I did hear her points I just don't remember how she said it exactly, because I was crawling under a rock. She said something like Wouldn't you want to know, and It would be good to know, and You should know, and how It's important to know to eliminate it (I remember I was slowly shaking my head No here), and If [she] suspected the flock had it [she] would have to report me as a certified vet or she couldn't practice.

Then later she said she didn't think this was actually a case of avian flu because I would be losing birds, (Peanut and Butters they believe were victims of genetics, Hazel and Popcorn doing apparently well) and she said she could just test strictly for mycoplasma, but we agreed since Anna has been taking antibiotics, since everyone is eating, drinking and acting well enough, the best thing is to wait and see how it goes, and to test if someone acts poorly again. But I see in her notes she didn't rule out a broad avian panel, so who's to know once a sample is given over what test is done on it, on whose authority?

She did listen to all the Spuds' lungs and hearts, and found everyone to be fine. Anna is not fine yet, you can see it in her eyes not open wide a lot, but she thought she needs more time to gain her strength back.

A kind thing she said was how tame the Spuds are. But - hah! - none of them would be still for her when she held them to listen. So after she tried them, I helped and easily lifted each one with one hand under them and then held them gently against me, lifting a wing on each side for her to listen.

Then I waited a long time while she went back into the office (the exams are outside at the car unless the weather is terrible) and did her notes. Never waited that long before! (hah - were the Ag authorities going to come for me and my little ones? I envisioned a line of police cars coming along the road between the corn fields and turning in on the road ).

Clinical Summary --

Anna - smaller than sisters, tires more easily, recently treated for coccidiosis with Corid in the water. She had no improvement as of this past weekend, and treatment with baytril according to directions found online was instituted due to presumption of Mycoplasma
infection.
Ida - sneezes occasionally, otherwise good appetite and growing well
Tedi - doing well

At this time, all 3 pullets have clear eyes and nares. Lung sounds clear. Heart sounds normal with regular rhythm. All currently have a good appetite. No treatment necessary at this time. If respiratory illness recurs, recommend performing Mycoplasma PCR test or Avian
Respiratory Panel to determine exact cause and targeted treatment plan.

Baytril antibiotic is prohibited for use in poultry by the FDA. Online stores selling baytril directly to consumers are suspect, as this is a prescription only product, and product integrity is questionable. Use of enrofloxacin (baytril) in poultry is documented to cause
development of antibiotic resistant campylobacter. Campylobacter is one of the most common causes of foodborne illness in people. If immunosuppressed individuals are infected with antibiotic resistant campylobacter, consequences can be dire. There is no established egg withhold for enrofloxacin - recommended to never consume eggs from a chicken/duck that has been treated with enrofloxacin. As part of a flock, poultry often will share populations of commensal bacteria, and as such antibiotic resistant campylobacter could be present in all members of the flock after one member has received treatment with enrofloxacin.

 

[knoturavggrl]

So the vet I saw immediately went into a scold / rant about my use of Baytril, kind of as I expected because it wasn't a plan agreed to with them, but because it is illegal, as she kept emphasizing, and asked where I got it, if it's from a foreign company it might not be what it's supposed to be, and the danger of resistance is really bad, and getting resistant campylobacter is really bad....She also said since there's no known withdrawal time and I should never eat any of the eggs from any of them (I think she thought I treated them all and I said only Anna's been treated).

She said if it is/was mycoplasma that it is a problem in my flock management. I said I don't know how they got it; I didn't get a chance to give a history - maybe Queenie had it? - but it could be wild songbirds in the run, or even the UPS guy (who has told me he routinely delivers where there are chickens strolling in the driveway); she said that the truck tires wouldn't transfer it after a few miles on the road, and I said what about his shoes? And she said nothing. I wasn't sure where this talk was going.

I think she made some valid points but was lacking in the empathy department, or if it's not empathy exactly, a sympathetic understanding of backyard chickens as pets and what that means, and how sick Anna appeared to me, her not getting better for more than a week, and the symptoms of swollen sinuses and her scratching her head and eyes and drawing blood. She did say she thought she did see red in the conjunctiva of Anna's eyes from the pictures but it's hard with pictures.

She suggested that she would have wanted to test Anna and then treat for specific diseases found, and for mycoplasma the treatment would have been sulfa_______, not Baytril, and I agreed that would be good, but that I didn't want her tested, and she asked why and I said b/c of the possibility of avian flu.

Here I'm paraphrasing because I only vaguely remember her speech, I couldn't bear to hear it I guess, so clinically, sternly and coldly, though I know I did hear her points I just don't remember how she said it exactly, because I was crawling under a rock. She said something like Wouldn't you want to know, and It would be good to know, and You should know, and how It's important to know to eliminate it (I remember I was slowly shaking my head No here), and If [she] suspected the flock had it [she] would have to report me as a certified vet or she couldn't practice.

Then later she said she didn't think this was actually a case of avian flu because I would be losing birds, (Peanut and Butters they believe were victims of genetics, Hazel and Popcorn doing apparently well) and she said she could just test strictly for mycoplasma, but we agreed since Anna has been taking antibiotics, since everyone is eating, drinking and acting well enough, the best thing is to wait and see how it goes, and to test if someone acts poorly again. But I see in her notes she didn't rule out a broad avian panel, so who's to know once a sample is given over what test is done on it, on whose authority?

She did listen to all the Spuds' lungs and hearts, and found everyone to be fine. Anna is not fine yet, you can see it in her eyes not open wide a lot, but she thought she needs more time to gain her strength back.

A kind thing she said was how tame the Spuds are. But - hah! - none of them would be still for her when she held them to listen. So after she tried them, I helped and easily lifted each one with one hand under them and then held them gently against me, lifting a wing on each side for her to listen.

Then I waited a long time while she went back into the office (the exams are outside at the car unless the weather is terrible) and did her notes. Never waited that long before! (hah - were the Ag authorities going to come for me and my little ones? I envisioned a line of police cars coming along the road between the corn fields and turning in on the road ).

Clinical Summary --

Anna - smaller than sisters, tires more easily, recently treated for coccidiosis with Corid in the water. She had no improvement as of this past weekend, and treatment with baytril according to directions found online was instituted due to presumption of Mycoplasma
infection.
Ida - sneezes occasionally, otherwise good appetite and growing well
Tedi - doing well

At this time, all 3 pullets have clear eyes and nares. Lung sounds clear. Heart sounds normal with regular rhythm. All currently have a good appetite. No treatment necessary at this time. If respiratory illness recurs, recommend performing Mycoplasma PCR test or Avian
Respiratory Panel to determine exact cause and targeted treatment plan.

Baytril antibiotic is prohibited for use in poultry by the FDA. Online stores selling baytril directly to consumers are suspect, as this is a prescription only product, and product integrity is questionable. Use of enrofloxacin (baytril) in poultry is documented to cause
development of antibiotic resistant campylobacter. Campylobacter is one of the most common causes of foodborne illness in people. If immunosuppressed individuals are infected with antibiotic resistant campylobacter, consequences can be dire. There is no established egg withhold for enrofloxacin - recommended to never consume eggs from a chicken/duck that has been treated with enrofloxacin. As part of a flock, poultry often will share populations of commensal bacteria, and as such antibiotic resistant campylobacter could be present in all members of the flock after one member has received treatment with enrofloxacin.

I am sorry you went through this. I understand she has to say what she said but there were kinder ways to go about doing so. Her perspective and ours as byc keepers are unfortunately at odds (to some degree) with one another.

There was a time when vets felt pretty much the same way about dogs and cats. We can hope that someday the same understanding and empathy will emerge for those of us who keep chickens and other “livestock” as pets.

For what it’s worth, I think you did the right thing for Anna and for your flock. I would also like to thank you for sharing your story as I think it is a reminder to be grateful for the help and knowledge a professional can offer us but also to use caution when choosing our words or what tests we consent to with our pets.

 

[RoyalChick]

So the vet I saw immediately went into a scold / rant about my use of Baytril, kind of as I expected because it wasn't a plan agreed to with them, but because it is illegal, as she kept emphasizing, and asked where I got it, if it's from a foreign company it might not be what it's supposed to be, and the danger of resistance is really bad, and getting resistant campylobacter is really bad....She also said since there's no known withdrawal time and I should never eat any of the eggs from any of them (I think she thought I treated them all and I said only Anna's been treated).

She said if it is/was mycoplasma that it is a problem in my flock management. I said I don't know how they got it; I didn't get a chance to give a history - maybe Queenie had it? - but it could be wild songbirds in the run, or even the UPS guy (who has told me he routinely delivers where there are chickens strolling in the driveway); she said that the truck tires wouldn't transfer it after a few miles on the road, and I said what about his shoes? And she said nothing. I wasn't sure where this talk was going.

I think she made some valid points but was lacking in the empathy department, or if it's not empathy exactly, a sympathetic understanding of backyard chickens as pets and what that means, and how sick Anna appeared to me, her not getting better for more than a week, and the symptoms of swollen sinuses and her scratching her head and eyes and drawing blood. She did say she thought she did see red in the conjunctiva of Anna's eyes from the pictures but it's hard with pictures.

She suggested that she would have wanted to test Anna and then treat for specific diseases found, and for mycoplasma the treatment would have been sulfa_______, not Baytril, and I agreed that would be good, but that I didn't want her tested, and she asked why and I said b/c of the possibility of avian flu.

Here I'm paraphrasing because I only vaguely remember her speech, I couldn't bear to hear it I guess, so clinically, sternly and coldly, though I know I did hear her points I just don't remember how she said it exactly, because I was crawling under a rock. She said something like Wouldn't you want to know, and It would be good to know, and You should know, and how It's important to know to eliminate it (I remember I was slowly shaking my head No here), and If [she] suspected the flock had it [she] would have to report me as a certified vet or she couldn't practice.

Then later she said she didn't think this was actually a case of avian flu because I would be losing birds, (Peanut and Butters they believe were victims of genetics, Hazel and Popcorn doing apparently well) and she said she could just test strictly for mycoplasma, but we agreed since Anna has been taking antibiotics, since everyone is eating, drinking and acting well enough, the best thing is to wait and see how it goes, and to test if someone acts poorly again. But I see in her notes she didn't rule out a broad avian panel, so who's to know once a sample is given over what test is done on it, on whose authority?

She did listen to all the Spuds' lungs and hearts, and found everyone to be fine. Anna is not fine yet, you can see it in her eyes not open wide a lot, but she thought she needs more time to gain her strength back.

A kind thing she said was how tame the Spuds are. But - hah! - none of them would be still for her when she held them to listen. So after she tried them, I helped and easily lifted each one with one hand under them and then held them gently against me, lifting a wing on each side for her to listen.

Then I waited a long time while she went back into the office (the exams are outside at the car unless the weather is terrible) and did her notes. Never waited that long before! (hah - were the Ag authorities going to come for me and my little ones? I envisioned a line of police cars coming along the road between the corn fields and turning in on the road ).

Clinical Summary --

Anna - smaller than sisters, tires more easily, recently treated for coccidiosis with Corid in the water. She had no improvement as of this past weekend, and treatment with baytril according to directions found online was instituted due to presumption of Mycoplasma
infection.
Ida - sneezes occasionally, otherwise good appetite and growing well
Tedi - doing well

At this time, all 3 pullets have clear eyes and nares. Lung sounds clear. Heart sounds normal with regular rhythm. All currently have a good appetite. No treatment necessary at this time. If respiratory illness recurs, recommend performing Mycoplasma PCR test or Avian
Respiratory Panel to determine exact cause and targeted treatment plan.

Baytril antibiotic is prohibited for use in poultry by the FDA. Online stores selling baytril directly to consumers are suspect, as this is a prescription only product, and product integrity is questionable. Use of enrofloxacin (baytril) in poultry is documented to cause
development of antibiotic resistant campylobacter. Campylobacter is one of the most common causes of foodborne illness in people. If immunosuppressed individuals are infected with antibiotic resistant campylobacter, consequences can be dire. There is no established egg withhold for enrofloxacin - recommended to never consume eggs from a chicken/duck that has been treated with enrofloxacin. As part of a flock, poultry often will share populations of commensal bacteria, and as such antibiotic resistant campylobacter could be present in all members of the flock after one member has received treatment with enrofloxacin.

She sounds mean!
But good news they are all well now.
Useful fact that I hope you never need - private labs are not required to report AI. Practicing vets are required to. I asked the Texas lab about this specifically.
I got comfortable about eating the eggs after Baytril - I don’t have anything to hand but can look for stuff later if you are nervous about it.
Was this the same vet that didn’t call you back?

 

[RoyalChick]

So the vet I saw immediately went into a scold / rant about my use of Baytril, kind of as I expected because it wasn't a plan agreed to with them, but because it is illegal, as she kept emphasizing, and asked where I got it, if it's from a foreign company it might not be what it's supposed to be, and the danger of resistance is really bad, and getting resistant campylobacter is really bad....She also said since there's no known withdrawal time and I should never eat any of the eggs from any of them (I think she thought I treated them all and I said only Anna's been treated).

She said if it is/was mycoplasma that it is a problem in my flock management. I said I don't know how they got it; I didn't get a chance to give a history - maybe Queenie had it? - but it could be wild songbirds in the run, or even the UPS guy (who has told me he routinely delivers where there are chickens strolling in the driveway); she said that the truck tires wouldn't transfer it after a few miles on the road, and I said what about his shoes? And she said nothing. I wasn't sure where this talk was going.

I think she made some valid points but was lacking in the empathy department, or if it's not empathy exactly, a sympathetic understanding of backyard chickens as pets and what that means, and how sick Anna appeared to me, her not getting better for more than a week, and the symptoms of swollen sinuses and her scratching her head and eyes and drawing blood. She did say she thought she did see red in the conjunctiva of Anna's eyes from the pictures but it's hard with pictures.

She suggested that she would have wanted to test Anna and then treat for specific diseases found, and for mycoplasma the treatment would have been sulfa_______, not Baytril, and I agreed that would be good, but that I didn't want her tested, and she asked why and I said b/c of the possibility of avian flu.

Here I'm paraphrasing because I only vaguely remember her speech, I couldn't bear to hear it I guess, so clinically, sternly and coldly, though I know I did hear her points I just don't remember how she said it exactly, because I was crawling under a rock. She said something like Wouldn't you want to know, and It would be good to know, and You should know, and how It's important to know to eliminate it (I remember I was slowly shaking my head No here), and If [she] suspected the flock had it [she] would have to report me as a certified vet or she couldn't practice.

Then later she said she didn't think this was actually a case of avian flu because I would be losing birds, (Peanut and Butters they believe were victims of genetics, Hazel and Popcorn doing apparently well) and she said she could just test strictly for mycoplasma, but we agreed since Anna has been taking antibiotics, since everyone is eating, drinking and acting well enough, the best thing is to wait and see how it goes, and to test if someone acts poorly again. But I see in her notes she didn't rule out a broad avian panel, so who's to know once a sample is given over what test is done on it, on whose authority?

She did listen to all the Spuds' lungs and hearts, and found everyone to be fine. Anna is not fine yet, you can see it in her eyes not open wide a lot, but she thought she needs more time to gain her strength back.

A kind thing she said was how tame the Spuds are. But - hah! - none of them would be still for her when she held them to listen. So after she tried them, I helped and easily lifted each one with one hand under them and then held them gently against me, lifting a wing on each side for her to listen.

Then I waited a long time while she went back into the office (the exams are outside at the car unless the weather is terrible) and did her notes. Never waited that long before! (hah - were the Ag authorities going to come for me and my little ones? I envisioned a line of police cars coming along the road between the corn fields and turning in on the road ).

Clinical Summary --

Anna - smaller than sisters, tires more easily, recently treated for coccidiosis with Corid in the water. She had no improvement as of this past weekend, and treatment with baytril according to directions found online was instituted due to presumption of Mycoplasma
infection.
Ida - sneezes occasionally, otherwise good appetite and growing well
Tedi - doing well

At this time, all 3 pullets have clear eyes and nares. Lung sounds clear. Heart sounds normal with regular rhythm. All currently have a good appetite. No treatment necessary at this time. If respiratory illness recurs, recommend performing Mycoplasma PCR test or Avian
Respiratory Panel to determine exact cause and targeted treatment plan.

Baytril antibiotic is prohibited for use in poultry by the FDA. Online stores selling baytril directly to consumers are suspect, as this is a prescription only product, and product integrity is questionable. Use of enrofloxacin (baytril) in poultry is documented to cause
development of antibiotic resistant campylobacter. Campylobacter is one of the most common causes of foodborne illness in people. If immunosuppressed individuals are infected with antibiotic resistant campylobacter, consequences can be dire. There is no established egg withhold for enrofloxacin - recommended to never consume eggs from a chicken/duck that has been treated with enrofloxacin. As part of a flock, poultry often will share populations of commensal bacteria, and as such antibiotic resistant campylobacter could be present in all members of the flock after one member has received treatment with enrofloxacin.

Oh, and this suspect foreigners selling dodgy drugs is BS as it was legally available for our use up until 4 months ago.

 

[featherhead007]

So the vet I saw immediately went into a scold / rant about my use of Baytril, kind of as I expected because it wasn't a plan agreed to with them, but because it is illegal, as she kept emphasizing, and asked where I got it, if it's from a foreign company it might not be what it's supposed to be, and the danger of resistance is really bad, and getting resistant campylobacter is really bad....She also said since there's no known withdrawal time and I should never eat any of the eggs from any of them (I think she thought I treated them all and I said only Anna's been treated).

She said if it is/was mycoplasma that it is a problem in my flock management. I said I don't know how they got it; I didn't get a chance to give a history - maybe Queenie had it? - but it could be wild songbirds in the run, or even the UPS guy (who has told me he routinely delivers where there are chickens strolling in the driveway); she said that the truck tires wouldn't transfer it after a few miles on the road, and I said what about his shoes? And she said nothing. I wasn't sure where this talk was going.

I think she made some valid points but was lacking in the empathy department, or if it's not empathy exactly, a sympathetic understanding of backyard chickens as pets and what that means, and how sick Anna appeared to me, her not getting better for more than a week, and the symptoms of swollen sinuses and her scratching her head and eyes and drawing blood. She did say she thought she did see red in the conjunctiva of Anna's eyes from the pictures but it's hard with pictures.

She suggested that she would have wanted to test Anna and then treat for specific diseases found, and for mycoplasma the treatment would have been sulfa_______, not Baytril, and I agreed that would be good, but that I didn't want her tested, and she asked why and I said b/c of the possibility of avian flu.

Here I'm paraphrasing because I only vaguely remember her speech, I couldn't bear to hear it I guess, so clinically, sternly and coldly, though I know I did hear her points I just don't remember how she said it exactly, because I was crawling under a rock. She said something like Wouldn't you want to know, and It would be good to know, and You should know, and how It's important to know to eliminate it (I remember I was slowly shaking my head No here), and If [she] suspected the flock had it [she] would have to report me as a certified vet or she couldn't practice.

Then later she said she didn't think this was actually a case of avian flu because I would be losing birds, (Peanut and Butters they believe were victims of genetics, Hazel and Popcorn doing apparently well) and she said she could just test strictly for mycoplasma, but we agreed since Anna has been taking antibiotics, since everyone is eating, drinking and acting well enough, the best thing is to wait and see how it goes, and to test if someone acts poorly again. But I see in her notes she didn't rule out a broad avian panel, so who's to know once a sample is given over what test is done on it, on whose authority?

She did listen to all the Spuds' lungs and hearts, and found everyone to be fine. Anna is not fine yet, you can see it in her eyes not open wide a lot, but she thought she needs more time to gain her strength back.

A kind thing she said was how tame the Spuds are. But - hah! - none of them would be still for her when she held them to listen. So after she tried them, I helped and easily lifted each one with one hand under them and then held them gently against me, lifting a wing on each side for her to listen.

Then I waited a long time while she went back into the office (the exams are outside at the car unless the weather is terrible) and did her notes. Never waited that long before! (hah - were the Ag authorities going to come for me and my little ones? I envisioned a line of police cars coming along the road between the corn fields and turning in on the road ).

Clinical Summary --

Anna - smaller than sisters, tires more easily, recently treated for coccidiosis with Corid in the water. She had no improvement as of this past weekend, and treatment with baytril according to directions found online was instituted due to presumption of Mycoplasma
infection.
Ida - sneezes occasionally, otherwise good appetite and growing well
Tedi - doing well

At this time, all 3 pullets have clear eyes and nares. Lung sounds clear. Heart sounds normal with regular rhythm. All currently have a good appetite. No treatment necessary at this time. If respiratory illness recurs, recommend performing Mycoplasma PCR test or Avian
Respiratory Panel to determine exact cause and targeted treatment plan.

Baytril antibiotic is prohibited for use in poultry by the FDA. Online stores selling baytril directly to consumers are suspect, as this is a prescription only product, and product integrity is questionable. Use of enrofloxacin (baytril) in poultry is documented to cause
development of antibiotic resistant campylobacter. Campylobacter is one of the most common causes of foodborne illness in people. If immunosuppressed individuals are infected with antibiotic resistant campylobacter, consequences can be dire. There is no established egg withhold for enrofloxacin - recommended to never consume eggs from a chicken/duck that has been treated with enrofloxacin. As part of a flock, poultry often will share populations of commensal bacteria, and as such antibiotic resistant campylobacter could be present in all members of the flock after one member has received treatment with enrofloxacin.

I’d be interested in a second opinion from another veterinarian (one whose bed side manor is not so cold. )