Specially for @micstrachan - I have done this as a reply to my original post so the sources and my summary stay together.
A few caveats:
  • I am not a vet or a poultry nutritional scientist. I do have some experience in reading scientific papers but it is all a long time ago!
  • I did not pay for access to full tex t if it was not available for free (I also didn't sign up for anything in order to get access to full text). This means that in some cases I could not judge the scientific methods because only the abstracts were shared. This is important because not all methods are robust and many studies are based on quite small numbers of observations
  • In reading any scientific paper on chicken health you need to look carefully at the end point measurements in terms of what they consider a good outcome. Many articles are aimed at the commercial chicken industry and so measure outcomes related to that - such as carcas weight or increased laying. Obviously I was not interested in that so I rejected a load of articles (mainly not included here) whose measurements I could not connect to health in the way we mean it for our beloved chickens
With all that said, here is some reading for anyone who wants to go down the same rabbit-hole that I did!

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poultry/fatty-liver-hemorrhagic-syndrome/fatty-liver-hemorrhagic-syndrome-in-poultry?query=fatty liver in chickens
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119319856
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8378221/
https://www.dopharma.com/technical-support/fatty-liver-haemorrhagic-syndrome/ (this one is from a company selling choline supplements but it is a well written summary of FLHS and cites multiple academic sources)
http://www.poultrydvm.com/condition/choline-deficiency (not really an academic source)
https://cdnsciencepub.com/doi/pdf/10.4141/A06-043
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0300985813503569 (this is the California study - it is based on necropsies sent into the state system over a number of years)
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/03079457608418164?src=getftr (this is not a scientific paper but a published review - old but very helpful - it explains why higher fat and lower carbohydrate in the diet may be best for the chickens because the disease seems to be caused in part by pathology in the manufacture of lipids from carbohydrates in the liver - this is referrred to in the Merck Veterinary Manual and is what @bgmathteach spotted - higher dietary fat reduces the liver manufacturing fat)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119458914 (support for a diet with 4% fat)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0032579119473720
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31565961/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12828209/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27143762/
https://poultry.extension.org/artic...ients-for-poultry/flax-seed-in-poultry-diets/ (this is the article that had me thinking long term use of flax seed increased FLHS - it does not cite any sources for the assertion and I have found no academic study to support it - most say flax is beneficial in reducing FLHS and some say it doesn't have any effect - shame on the USDA, university extension organization and the author!)

PHEW - that was a marathon.

And here is a small tax contribution for Bob as I may now have provided the longest post on this thread ever with no pictures!

View attachment 3057243
Here's what I was responding to - my Internet was glitching.
 
The middle brown egg is closest to what the OG Buckeyes from My Pet Chicken would lay, a brown egg but not a particularly dark one. I haven't had eggs yet from the new Buckeyes, who appear to be a more "true" Buckeye in appearance from the line Cackle keeps.

It’s too bad we don’t get them up here - I would love some chestnut coloured chooks. Just as well though!

Wow so dark and so beautiful! What type of Marans (assuming she's a Marans)?

A Marans hybrid called Noirans, developed in France by Hendrix Genetics. They also developed the Azure Blue I have here (whom I really really love!), those Noirans are quiet sweet birds, I have no trouble with them - other than their wanting to harass the silkie chicklets and poor Petra!

https://layinghens.hendrix-genetics.com/en/our-brands/special-layer-breeds/noirans/
 
It’s too bad we don’t get them up here - I would love some chestnut coloured chooks. Just as well though!



A Marans hybrid called Noirans, developed in France by Hendrix Genetics. They also developed the Azure Blue I have here (whom I really really love!), those Noirans are quiet sweet birds, I have no trouble with them - other than their wanting to harass the silkie chicklets and poor Petra!

https://layinghens.hendrix-genetics.com/en/our-brands/special-layer-breeds/noirans/
They're amazing!
 
I bought the jars and took them in to show him and he said I couldn't go wrong on dosage because it's helpful for all of them.

Eta: his words were something like the supplements are not harmful, so don't worry about dosage but at the same time, don't go overboard, just give one a day. Also, i take the chooks in for checkups every six months for him to keep an eye on them. These days there's very little going wrong with them.

Four hens share a nightly mash with supplements. The mash is two cups of pellets.

The choline and enzymes probiotics are loose powder. Enzymes Probiotics are 3/4 of a teaspoon. Choline is 1/4 of a teaspoon. Added to the pellets while they're dry.

The biotin, milk thistle and DMG are capsules. Anyway, I'll get photos of the jars so you can see how much is in a capsule. I open one capsule of each and add to the dry pellets.

I shake it all together in a tupperware, then add 1/2 cup of water and shake again. I leave it for 30 minutes or so, then give it to the hens in four bowls with cottage cheese on top. If I give it to them an hour before sunset, they have time to eat most of it before roosting.

I'll go get those photos now.
See - this is why I wade through the old posts. This is incredibly good to know.
 
I have a question, what type of feed is considered best, for older chooks that are past their egg laying days?
My girls took good care of me, so I want them comfortable in their twilight years. :old :idunno
I'm using Nutrena All-Flock 20% these days
 
One of the things I find them doing is eating all the grains from the textured feed and leaving the pellets. Brats! So every week I dump their tubs out and they further pick through this and whatever is left is swept up and discarded.
So how do you ensure everyone is getting the essential nutrients that the pellets provide? On the Poultry Vet FB site, the Moderators periodically rant about this...
 
Wow. This is very helpful! I have started worrying about choline, biotin etc and wondering how in earth to figure it all out.
And here I was thinking I just needed to limit treats and get some exercise for the chickens!
Well exercise is pretty good for them!
 
Corn on the cob! image.jpg
 

New posts New threads Active threads

Back
Top Bottom