The Great SI (Shape index) experiment

[Nksg75]

I have decided to do an experiment. After reading this paper on Shape Index of eggs and how that can essentially predict the sex of a chick before hatch. I decided why not? I am going to hatch, why not just see if there is any truth to it. It's kind of fun, regardless of outcome! Makes for a great school project that's for sure. The first time I did it I had a decent number of eggs(60) to do the expierement on. I did all the measurements, and hatched 52/60 eggs. I had them separated by predicted gender, unfortunately my cousin (whom they were hatched for) mixed them up, and all the time and attention to detail is lost. I decided to do it again, and make it really easy. I bought eggs that will have chicks that are autosexing!! No more waiting! Immediate gratification!!

Here is a link to the article I read:

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1516-635X2013000300006


Here is the formula we used directly from the article. We just did the shape index calculation, as I am not much of a mathematician and most of the terminology in regard to stepwise logistics regression...blah blah blah was so confusing to me.


The maximum widths and lengths of each egg were measured with using Mutitoyo digital calliper (Mutitoyo, Japan) (±0.01 mm) and their shape index was calculated using the formula:

SI = (W / L) × 100 (Yannakopoulos & Tserveni-Gousi, 1986).

where SI= shape index, W= width of the egg, and L= length of the egg

I bought the digital calipers off eBay, and my daughter and I measure them together.


Below is the first eggs I did.(remember the chicks were mixed together, so I will never know the true outcome)

What I did was take the higher SI% and placed them in 1 incubator, and the others in a separate incubator. They were kept separate the entire time, and after hatch, placed in separate brooders.
After 4 days I took them to their new home. My cousin had lost her entire flock in one night, so I incubated 60 mixed breed eggs for her. Unfortunately as I said before they were mixed up and put in one single brooder box. (Importance of communication with her husband) anyway, it was an accident, and it gave me an excuse to try it again!
This time I ordered autosexing olive eggers from Papa's poultry. I ordered 6, and he was very generous with extras, that I received 11!!

They traveled a long, long way in Usps hands(yikes)

I am one day 18 with 3 viable eggs left!!
So here is my sheet from this hatch.
I have eggs 1,3 and 5 left.
I predict #5 is the only hen.
We will see!! Even if they don't hatch, I will still be able to tell if they are female/male.

Wish me luck!!
And yes, before anyone says anything, I do realize this is not a tried and true method, otherwise the hatcheries would be doing this!
It's just an expierement!!
If anyone else wants to join, please do!!!

 

[oregonkat]

Would love to see a study regarding H2O2.

P.S. if my Russian grandmama were here, she would throw a shoe at you and tell you 'Of course I only grow vone rooster I know vitch egg is vitch'

 

[BantyChooks]

I have read about choosing the sex of your chicks by studying the shape of the egg for maybe 60 years. I can assure you that this is no different from predicting the likely hood of a child turning out to be a genius or a criminal by feeling the bumps and knots on that child's noggin.

Oops, I guess I should go let that kid with the bumpy head out of the handcuffs, then.

 

[lazy gardener]

Would it actually matter which hen laid the eggs if you are only trying to hatch the 'roundest' eggs? I have not read your thread related to your experiment so forgive me if this question is answered there. My very Russian Grandmama swore blind that she could tell if her eggs were going to be roos or hens and also swore that she was right every time but this was long before my chicken owning days. I never had the chance to put her to the test as she also is now long gone . Her theory was round for hens and long and pointy for roos. So simple, niet?

Nein. B/C if she had such accuracy, wouldn't she only have hatched a single cockerel every year? Your question is an interesting one, which most likely does not have an answer and would be the subject of an other study. It is the hen who determines the gender of the egg. And, some hens are more likely to produce pullets, while some other hens are more likely to produce cockerels. So, perhaps those hens who produce cockerels lay pointy eggs??? So, if a flock owner happens to notice a particular hen who seems to produce more pullets, that flock owner SHOULD make every effort to hatch that hen's eggs, and use her daughters for future breeders.

Then, there is the whole temperature issue. Incubation temp can be tweaked to favor production of pullets. However, when tweaking temp, all that is really happening is that the weaker male embryos are being killed off in early development. So, the hatch rate goes down, but pullet % goes up. Some flock owners also note that pullet to cockerel ratio changes according to the temperature when eggs are collected.

 

[Nksg75]

I have read about choosing the sex of your chicks by studying the shape of the egg for maybe 60 years. I can assure you that this is no different from predicting the likely hood of a child turning out to be a genius or a criminal by feeling the bumps and knots on that child's noggin.

Bumps and knots on the head? I have never heard of that!! I better run and check my kids head!! (JK!!)
Yes, you may be right, but isn't it fun to just expierement especially when your kids are all involved?

 

[Nksg75]

Absolutely!
One thing I knoticed on those threads is that there wasn't much detail. The threads just sort of stop, yet no real results.
I am on day 20, and anxiously awaiting any chicks that may hatch!!
I'd much rather see a live chick and be able to sex it, rather than having to pull out a DIS and sexing that!!
I do believe I may have a late hatch. I believe my temps in the brinsea were a bit low. The mercury thermometer at top was set to 99, and I read that with the brinsea octogan eco, most people have it set to the 100* mark for best hatches.
Oh, well, we shall see!!

 

[Brahma Chicken5000]

Ok, just wanted to update everyone. Not one hatched yet. We are on day 23. I am going to open them up later today and document and see if I can color sex them.
I have already tapped, checked, candles, and float tested them. All are not viable, so I put them back in bator, and will do eggtopsy later today.

That stinks I’m still looking forward to the results of this experiment.

 

[Nksg75]

Looking forward to your next experiment.
I LOVE experiments!

Me too! Or is it really an excuse to hatch more chicks??? Hmmm, how to explain an addiction to my husband!!

 

[Nksg75]

Put the smallest bator in a room he will notice it.
Put another bator in a kids room.
And hide the other one real good.



What all did you order?
Breeds?

Ha, ha! Aren't you the clever one!!
By your advice, I would say you have done this a time or two!!
I may just do that!! I just have to figure out which kids room to put it in!!
I ordered more OE, CL, BCM, Polish, and Cochin. The only autosexing are the CL, however how could I resist not having such variety!!!
I will likely keep many of them long enough to sex them.(at least I plan to)

 

[Nksg75]

Ok, received 35 eggs today. Wow, this seller was the best packer I have ever seen. Many of the aircells are intact! Amazing huh?
I already measured, so just need to calculate the SI%!!
Here are a few pics of my helper!!