Unexpected death! Help!!

[rebrascora]

Good to hear that diet isn't the issue. Unfortunately some people feed their flock too much scratch or corn or feed ad lib organic whole grain feeds thinking they are giving their birds the best and suddenly lose a bird to Fatty Liver rupture, when they have appeared perfectly healthy up until then, and don't realise that the diet may be a problem.
I was just trying to say that whilst this death may be a one off, it can still be beneficial to know the cause. Another example would be that often a necropsy will include a report of parasitic load, maybe negative or heavy, which might have implications for the remaining flock. I do my own post mortem exams because I find it interesting but I appreciate not everyone can get their head around that and obviously I don't have the facilities to do further testing, but it is surprising how often you can pin point a problem.

Would you be kind enough to let us know the result of the necropsy?

 

[MiBirds]

Good to hear that diet isn't the issue. Unfortunately some people feed their flock too much scratch or corn or feed ad lib organic whole grain feeds thinking they are giving their birds the best and suddenly lose a bird to Fatty Liver rupture, when they have appeared perfectly healthy up until then, and don't realise that the diet may be a problem.
I was just trying to say that whilst this death may be a one off, it can still be beneficial to know the cause. Another example would be that often a necropsy will include a report of parasitic load, maybe negative or heavy, which might have implications for the remaining flock. I do my own post mortem exams because I find it interesting but I appreciate not everyone can get their head around that and obviously I don't have the facilities to do further testing, but it is surprising how often you can pin point a problem.

Would you be kind enough to let us know the result of the necropsy?

I’ll definitely let you know when I get the results back!

 

[MiBirds]

Good to hear that diet isn't the issue. Unfortunately some people feed their flock too much scratch or corn or feed ad lib organic whole grain feeds thinking they are giving their birds the best and suddenly lose a bird to Fatty Liver rupture, when they have appeared perfectly healthy up until then, and don't realise that the diet may be a problem.
I was just trying to say that whilst this death may be a one off, it can still be beneficial to know the cause. Another example would be that often a necropsy will include a report of parasitic load, maybe negative or heavy, which might have implications for the remaining flock. I do my own post mortem exams because I find it interesting but I appreciate not everyone can get their head around that and obviously I don't have the facilities to do further testing, but it is surprising how often you can pin point a problem.

Would you be kind enough to let us know the result of the necropsy?

The doctors said there were multiple tumors in her liver, proventriculus, kidneys, and heart. It was most definitely Marek's Disease. There was also a very large mass of roundworms blocking part of her intestines.
Marek's Disease is a virus, but we've been giving our chickens antibiotics to try and help, but those cannot cure Marek's. We think my oldest girl, Pipper, (6 years old) may have caught the virus from the last hen. We think she may not make it, but I will pray that she does for a while longer.

 

[rebrascora]

Hi. Thanks for updating us with the result of the necropsy. I'm so sorry it is Marek's.

I have had it in my flock for over 3 years now so I am very familiar with the virus. It is unusual for it to make it's first appearance in an older hen. Have you had no suspicious deaths or lameness etc prior to this? Most people see the first symptoms in adolescent birds, but it can show up in older birds as sadly it is very easily contracted. Infected birds don't show any symptoms until at least 3 weeks after infection, but it can be significantly longer as the virus has dormant phases like cold sores in humans (both are Herpes viruses) and some die suddenly as you have found due to visceral tumours without displaying any apparent symptoms. The worms are probably as a result of a compromised immune system. The virus tends to leave birds prone to secondary infections and parasitic overload.

My feeling is that antibiotics can be counter productive with Marek's as they upset the balance of bacteria in the gut and can stress the body and lead to an outbreak of the virus. I prefer to support the immune system with a multivitamin supplement like Nutri Drench and support the gut with a probiotic or fermented feed. Keeping birds as happy and stress free as possible is key to managing Marek's, but at this time of year the hormone fluctuations due to moult can also trigger outbreaks in older girls and unfortunately there isn't a lot you can do about that.

I wish you luck with your older girl that is looking sick. She has at least had a reasonably good run at 6 years unlike the many juvenile birds that succumb to Marek's so young, although I appreciate that is small comfort to you.
If it gives you a little hope, I have had birds make some miraculous recoveries from outbreaks of the neurological form of the disease. I give supportive care as long as they are eating with enthusiasm but euthanize one they lose interest in food. I've had some go several months, quite severely debilitated with it (nest bound) and eventually get back to free ranging with the flock, but others go downhill quickly. There are no hard and fast rules with this disease....symptoms are so diverse, timescales with it are so varied so birds can have outbreaks months apart and often people don't realise the cases are connected because they present so differently and of course, most people never bother to get a necropsy done. I find it really helps to know what you are dealing with so that you can assimilate as much information about it as you can and figure out how best to manage it. Some people cull birds as soon as they show symptoms and others like me give supportive care. If you have an aggressive strain, culling might be the best option. I'm fortunate that mine seems to be a milder one and so I do get birds that recover from outbreaks and can have a good quality/normal life until the next outbreak which might be months or years hence.

Anyway, try not to be too panicked or despondent. My experience of Marek's is much less horrendous than most of the information you read about it and whilst each individual loss is heart breaking, there are many other ailments and predators that kill chickens and this is just another one to be managed.

Very best wishes

Barbara