I agree with you. But erring on the side of caution rather than a middle path IMHO. Part of the risk calculation we make here is that lots about this situation is new ground, and new things are figured out as it's gone along. Scientists made their best guesses early on and kept investigating, and know lots more now than before, and we'd rather be safe than sorry. Schools are safer than previously thought. But other indoor situations are worse than thought. Social distancing indoors is for the birds (no insults intended!). Some nerds just released a study showing how social distancing indoors, unless you're wearing a great mask, is useless and pretty dangerous. The example was to think about how you can tell when someone is wearing perfume in about a minute in a room, even when they are ten feet away. Open air is best. Small enclosed spaces are worse than large ones.

In the U.S., one thing we've learned is that Americans are idiots to a great extent. The situation as we see it is that one must assume it is everywhere, because thanks to a lot of ignorance, denial, and willful bad behavior, now it actually is everywhere, and it's worse than in the Spring. There's going to be a lot more death here, I'm afraid, and lots more disability in those who survive, due to the aftereffects. Lots more. It is painful to see this happening especially when other countries have done so much better with it.

For me and my partner, caution is the better move and phone calls and Zoom are the order of the day for socialization. My uncle was killed by it in May - he got it in the Assisted Living place he was in. Our friend in the Adirondacks had it early on, in March (he did pretty well but said, "It's no joke"). My drummer's sister has it now very badly. On oxygen with double pneumonia. Her husband, who normally works from home, decided to fly somewhere recently on a business trip, came back & felt bad and didn't think it was anything until he got much worse days later. She's not on a ventilator yet thank God.

The lasting damage is real for many people who have recovered. Some don't seem to recover for months.

So we feel we can keep doing this, though it's hard. We are lucky in that we can afford to. We doubt we'll be playing gigs next summer at all. Some people we know on my hill say, when they're going to a party or an event with unknown numbers of other people, "Well, but you gotta live your life!" To which my DH said, "Yeah, but 'live' is the operative word there."

Sorry / not sorry for the rant.
:hugs I am so sorry to hear of your loss. And I don’t think anyone here takes it lightly, at all. Especially with all the science based backgrounds floating around here. Something to remember is that Shadrach, Ribh, and myself all live in fairly remote communities, with quite little interaction to begin with. Where I live, you now face a $2000 fine for having a “gathering” that is in contravention to the Provincial Health Order, and right now that means having anyone outside your “household” over. They have made an allowance for single person households (due to a huge spike in mental health issues and the local overdose crisis deaths almost tripling), so now people who live alone are allowed to socialize with up to two people they do not live with. There are 360 people in my community, mostly elderly. Every situation is going to look different, and from day one of this DH and I have been very much aware, as food handlers and essential workers, that we pose more of a threat to our community for transmission than they pose to us. That said we use as much caution as possible in those high risk situations, but eventually we have to go in to town to buy food.

The Walmart scares me, not my neighbor who just left our island for the first time in five years (he had to buy a new motorcycle). I know he’s “safe” and he trusts us to take all possible precautions in high risk locations. Otherwise his chickens would starve and he might just cross the edge from the Old Angry Weird guy that scares a lot of people with his appearance and mannerisms, to actually becoming a danger to himself or others. He doesn’t have a computer, or so the internet, no cell phone, and there are precious few people that talk to him.
 
I’m going to owe chicken tax so badly in arrears, and it might be a bit in coming... I have thrown my back right out today and can barely walk (even after taking some of my heavy duty pain meds). That, and this
When they take my blood, I show them exactly which arm, and which vein (I have to, mine are hard to locate)
Smart man.
reminds me of 2014, SARS, the first time I threw it out badly, and then the October incident. Due to DH’s heart condition, we were frequent riders with the local ambulance service (Thank God we live in Canada... with heath care and we had extended insurance coverage that reimbursed for several ambulances each year!). Also thanks the the changes to his heart (modifies Fontan surgery) his ECG readouts are sort of backwards/upside down, and it has a very odd wheezing thumping sound. After several call outs, we started getting paramedics with trainees on board, regularly. There is a drug that can be injected intravenously with a large quantity of saline that can have a similar result as electrocardioversion (zapping his heart back into line when it acts up) and one Night in October they decided to maybe try that again. It has never worked for him before, but hey, no harm in letting them try? The trainee missed his vein, and poor Andrew ended up with an arm full of saline! Think Popeye forearm... the trainee was mortified. They tried again on the other arm and it actually worked. He still had to go to hospital to make sure he hadn’t damaged his heart further, but I got to go back to bed.

My trainee experience was less dramatic, but equally painful. If I didn’t mind, could she practice and put an iv in me? They might even use it for meds or liquids or such. I was already on a gas tank for the pain and a little loopy, why not? Well a good reason not to was being used repeatedly as a pincushion! I think she finally got it in after five or six attempts... my arms (both) were bruised for days afterward.
 
I’m going to owe chicken tax so badly in arrears, and it might be a bit in coming... I have thrown my back right out today and can barely walk (even after taking some of my heavy duty pain meds). That, and this


reminds me of 2014, SARS, the first time I threw it out badly, and then the October incident. Due to DH’s heart condition, we were frequent riders with the local ambulance service (Thank God we live in Canada... with heath care and we had extended insurance coverage that reimbursed for several ambulances each year!). Also thanks the the changes to his heart (modifies Fontan surgery) his ECG readouts are sort of backwards/upside down, and it has a very odd wheezing thumping sound. After several call outs, we started getting paramedics with trainees on board, regularly. There is a drug that can be injected intravenously with a large quantity of saline that can have a similar result as electrocardioversion (zapping his heart back into line when it acts up) and one Night in October they decided to maybe try that again. It has never worked for him before, but hey, no harm in letting them try? The trainee missed his vein, and poor Andrew ended up with an arm full of saline! Think Popeye forearm... the trainee was mortified. They tried again on the other arm and it actually worked. He still had to go to hospital to make sure he hadn’t damaged his heart further, but I got to go back to bed.

My trainee experience was less dramatic, but equally painful. If I didn’t mind, could she practice and put an iv in me? They might even use it for meds or liquids or such. I was already on a gas tank for the pain and a little loopy, why not? Well a good reason not to was being used repeatedly as a pincushion! I think she finally got it in after five or six attempts... my arms (both) were bruised for days afterward.
Oh dear. Well I suppose they have to learn somehow. :idunno :hugs

I hope your back feels better soon Kris.:fl
 
Darn! I should have read ahead. I definitely could have pulled it off.

"Hmmm. Yes, yes, definitely a male" 🧐🤔🧐
I am laughing so hard that you should admit you did not know when you had been right. O what happens when we get caught out by ourselves! I thought you were so smart! :lau:gig:lau:gig:lau:gig
 
:hugs I am so sorry to hear of your loss. And I don’t think anyone here takes it lightly, at all. Especially with all the science based backgrounds floating around here. Something to remember is that Shadrach, Ribh, and myself all live in fairly remote communities, with quite little interaction to begin with. Where I live, you now face a $2000 fine for having a “gathering” that is in contravention to the Provincial Health Order, and right now that means having anyone outside your “household” over. They have made an allowance for single person households (due to a huge spike in mental health issues and the local overdose crisis deaths almost tripling), so now people who live alone are allowed to socialize with up to two people they do not live with. There are 360 people in my community, mostly elderly. Every situation is going to look different, and from day one of this DH and I have been very much aware, as food handlers and essential workers, that we pose more of a threat to our community for transmission than they pose to us. That said we use as much caution as possible in those high risk situations, but eventually we have to go in to town to buy food.

The Walmart scares me, not my neighbor who just left our island for the first time in five years (he had to buy a new motorcycle). I know he’s “safe” and he trusts us to take all possible precautions in high risk locations. Otherwise his chickens would starve and he might just cross the edge from the Old Angry Weird guy that scares a lot of people with his appearance and mannerisms, to actually becoming a danger to himself or others. He doesn’t have a computer, or so the internet, no cell phone, and there are precious few people that talk to him.
So the wealthy can afford to have big parties at $2,000 a head. Flat rate penalties like this effect those with lower incomes so much more than the wealthy. Very regressive. Sorry, mini soap box.

Chicken tax
20190111_193709.jpg
 
I’m going to owe chicken tax so badly in arrears, and it might be a bit in coming... I have thrown my back right out today and can barely walk (even after taking some of my heavy duty pain meds). That, and this


reminds me of 2014, SARS, the first time I threw it out badly, and then the October incident. Due to DH’s heart condition, we were frequent riders with the local ambulance service (Thank God we live in Canada... with heath care and we had extended insurance coverage that reimbursed for several ambulances each year!). Also thanks the the changes to his heart (modifies Fontan surgery) his ECG readouts are sort of backwards/upside down, and it has a very odd wheezing thumping sound. After several call outs, we started getting paramedics with trainees on board, regularly. There is a drug that can be injected intravenously with a large quantity of saline that can have a similar result as electrocardioversion (zapping his heart back into line when it acts up) and one Night in October they decided to maybe try that again. It has never worked for him before, but hey, no harm in letting them try? The trainee missed his vein, and poor Andrew ended up with an arm full of saline! Think Popeye forearm... the trainee was mortified. They tried again on the other arm and it actually worked. He still had to go to hospital to make sure he hadn’t damaged his heart further, but I got to go back to bed.

My trainee experience was less dramatic, but equally painful. If I didn’t mind, could she practice and put an iv in me? They might even use it for meds or liquids or such. I was already on a gas tank for the pain and a little loopy, why not? Well a good reason not to was being used repeatedly as a pincushion! I think she finally got it in after five or six attempts... my arms (both) were bruised for days afterward.
Some people truly have a knack for it, others spend long time trying and get OK at it but never good. I have a large easy to find antecubital vein and still people would miss it.

I am sorry to hear about your back Kris. I don't remember this happening before. Is it a long recovery for you? :hugs :hugs

Chicken tax
20181120_085032.jpg
 

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