Fluffy Butt Acres: Stories of our flock

[bgmathteach]

Thanks!
I thought of sugar, and staying with their thinking, although honey might provide some good micronutrients the moisture in it would dilute the Corid per liquid amount available. So I might add dry sugar. It increases volume slightly but she's not been getting that much syringed anyway that I can't increase it a bit.

I am gathering the idea here, maybe incorrectly, but it seems to be a total ratio of liquid available to the Corid amount, so what is available to the body is only that ratio, getting it into the body cells in that ratio. Not a matter of taking a medicine with any amount of water desired, like taking a pill and drinking one or two or three glasses of water. A concept I hadn't heard of.

I suppose the binding of the specific B vitamin -B1?- happens inside the cells? In the metabolic action of the B vitamin? Dr Alex said Anna potentially / probably being dehydrated was going to effectively increase the Corid dose she was getting, the reason to stop the drench dosing.

I hope the deprivation of this B vitamin doesn't create a further problem, like wry neck or other neurological issue. She was craning her neck oddly toward her side later tonight while making stabbing motions to eat, why look for the dish back there? - so that brought it to mind.

So, my thoughts on this - and I am hoping that @RoyalChick will weigh in with her knowledge and experience, or @BY Bob with his.

If she does develop wry neck from the treatment, she is young enough still I think that it can be reversed with higher doses of B once the treatment is over. The really troubling part of wry neck in this case (at least troubling to me..i.e. what I am worried about) is her getting enough nutrients/calories in. Since she is already so weak, and if she does develop wry neck, it will make eating difficult (she WILL need help), she doesn't really have any 'reserves' per say, rather instead she should be eating extra to put back on some weight and wry neck will make it difficult to eat a normal amount of feed.

Well, we will see what happens in the next day or two regarding the neck. How long do you dose them for?? This is day 2, correct?

 

[Ponypoor]

A Wonderful Gift
Someone gave Mrs BY Bob a "Sydney" tonight. Isn't it cute!

View attachment 3646307

That’s really cute little bitty wings and yellow feet too!

 

[Ponypoor]

And thank you. I love the way you say "wee" about our little ones, it's really nice.

They are wee - tiny little balls of feathers that are very adorable and endearing.

Re pain: if the Meloxicam is a no go, what about Tylenol? Not sure my strength have here but for an adult bird i give 1/4ml (.25) so I would half that to 1/8 for a youngster. Might give her some relief enough to start drinking on her own. Also have you tried some scrambled eggs for her to eat? Easy on the gut.

There is a fine line on pain management with the body recognizing pain and remaining quiet, and the need. for pain relief to encourage activities like drinking and eating. Maybe ask your Vet about some Tylenol which is easy on the gut, but would help with encouraging fluid and caloric intake.

I am worried for the wee babe, they are so tiny, I also like bgmathteach idea on some sort of quick energy and while I do understand the mechanics of the Corid Amprol) in stopping the coccidia growth, the body does need fuel to help with the process. I am less worried about any affect of having wry neck or other neurological issue related to a decrease in any B vitamins, such a short time frame to have it.

Her havin her neck twisted sounds like an energy issue quite possibly. And your idea of the sugar or honey water with the Corid is a good idea . I am just thinking good thoughts here, and holding her in my thoughts and prayers - pretty little lass.

 

[BY Bob]

So, my thoughts on this - and I am hoping that @RoyalChick will weigh in with her knowledge and experience, or @BY Bob with his.

If she does develop wry neck from the treatment, she is young enough still I think that it can be reversed with higher doses of B once the treatment is over. The really troubling part of wry neck in this case (at least troubling to me..i.e. what I am worried about) is her getting enough nutrients/calories in. Since she is already so weak, and if she does develop wry neck, it will make eating difficult (she WILL need help), she doesn't really have any 'reserves' per say, rather instead she should be eating extra to put back on some weight and wry neck will make it difficult to eat a normal amount of feed.

Well, we will see what happens in the next day or two regarding the neck. How long do you dose them for?? This is day 2, correct?

I think the odds of Corid treatment causing wry neck are small. Between the water intake and direct dosing it does make it hard to calculate how much Corid she is actually taking in. I would assume this is a 5 -7 day course.

 

[RoyalChick]

I think the odds of Corid treatment causing wry neck are small. Between the water intake and direct dosing it does make it hard to calculate how much Corid she is actually taking in. I would assume this is a 5 -7 day course.

I don't totally understand the principle behind 'concentration' vs absolute dose. I guess something to do with ensuring everything that passes through the GI tract is undermining the coccidia.
But, I do believe that wry neck is nothing to do with vitamin B but rather vitamin E and selenium. So Corid will not cause wry neck.

 

[ChicoryBlue]

So, my thoughts on this - and I am hoping that @RoyalChick will weigh in with her knowledge and experience, or @BY Bob with his.

If she does develop wry neck from the treatment, she is young enough still I think that it can be reversed with higher doses of B once the treatment is over. The really troubling part of wry neck in this case (at least troubling to me..i.e. what I am worried about) is her getting enough nutrients/calories in. Since she is already so weak, and if she does develop wry neck, it will make eating difficult (she WILL need help), she doesn't really have any 'reserves' per say, rather instead she should be eating extra to put back on some weight and wry neck will make it difficult to eat a normal amount of feed.

Well, we will see what happens in the next day or two regarding the neck. How long do you dose them for?? This is day 2, correct?

Yes, although she technically had Corid on Sunday, the vet said she wanted to consider Monday as Day 1. This morning she is wanting to eat and drink! This is a big improvement from yesterday morning. She is still needing help though, so I will see if she’ll eat and drink every hour or two today, I’m home all day. She is not stabbing behind her now, but stabbing more or less in front but one to two inches off target, too high and off to one side. This is what was happening yesterday. It’s very strange. When she foraged she was aiming at a dried bean tendril and missed also.

They are wee - tiny little balls of feathers that are very adorable and endearing.

Re pain: if the Meloxicam is a no go, what about Tylenol? Not sure my strength have here but for an adult bird i give 1/4ml (.25) so I would half that to 1/8 for a youngster. Might give her some relief enough to start drinking on her own. Also have you tried some scrambled eggs for her to eat? Easy on the gut.

There is a fine line on pain management with the body recognizing pain and remaining quiet, and the need. for pain relief to encourage activities like drinking and eating. Maybe ask your Vet about some Tylenol which is easy on the gut, but would help with encouraging fluid and caloric intake.

I am worried for the wee babe, they are so tiny, I also like bgmathteach idea on some sort of quick energy and while I do understand the mechanics of the Corid Amprol) in stopping the coccidia growth, the body does need fuel to help with the process. I am less worried about any affect of having wry neck or other neurological issue related to a decrease in any B vitamins, such a short time frame to have it.

Her havin her neck twisted sounds like an energy issue quite possibly. And your idea of the sugar or honey water with the Corid is a good idea . I am just thinking good thoughts here, and holding her in my thoughts and prayers - pretty little lass.

I will try scrambled eggs today, that should be a treat all the Spuds can eat! I’m hoping since she is interested in eating that means her pain is less. Second guessing the vet, if she specifically mentioned meloxicam, why not mention an alternative available? I can ask.

I think the odds of Corid treatment causing wry neck are small. Between the water intake and direct dosing it does make it hard to calculate how much Corid she is actually taking in. I would assume this is a 5 -7 day course.

Dr Alex said she prefers doing a five-day course, and then treat again after a break, if it’s needed. The break seemed important to her. She decided we’re counting from Monday, aware of my treating her on Sunday. SonFriday will be the last day.

 

[ChicoryBlue]

I don't totally understand the principle behind 'concentration' vs absolute dose. I guess something to do with ensuring everything that passes through the GI tract is undermining the coccidia.
But, I do believe that wry neck is nothing to do with vitamin B but rather vitamin E and selenium. So Corid will not cause wry neck.

Thank you! I won’t worry about wry neck. The stress is not helping me in thinking straight and I didn’t search it yesterday, I was so tired.

Concentration vs absolute dose - thank you for the language to describe the idea!

 

[Marie2020]

@Marie2020, @Lilion.
Sorry - just coming up with names of folk who might care to vote.
@Desertvalleychickens.

Sorry I haven't been around. What are we voting for?

 

[bgmathteach]

Yes, although she technically had Corid on Sunday, the vet said she wanted to consider Monday as Day 1. This morning she is wanting to eat and drink! This is a big improvement from yesterday morning. She is still needing help though, so I will see if she’ll eat and drink every hour or two today, I’m home all day. She is not stabbing behind her now, but stabbing more or less in front but one to two inches off target, too high and off to one side. This is what was happening yesterday. It’s very strange. When she foraged she was aiming at a dried bean tendril and missed also.

I will try scrambled eggs today, that should be a treat all the Spuds can eat! I’m hoping since she is interested in eating that means her pain is less. Second guessing the vet, if she specifically mentioned meloxicam, why not mention an alternative available? I can ask.

Dr Alex said she prefers doing a five-day course, and then treat again after a break, if it’s needed. The break seemed important to her. She decided we’re counting from Monday, aware of my treating her on Sunday. SonFriday will be the last day.

Can you try feeding her a sunflower seed or two at each 'feeding session'? (i.e. I assume they have been getting grit right along) Sunflower seeds are relatively high in selenium and Vitamin E (more so the Vit. E, but somehow that frees up any selenium to do other work in the body I'm not sure exactly of the mechanism - it was explained in an article once, but it was a bit over my head biologically speaking.

 

[bgmathteach]

I don't totally understand the principle behind 'concentration' vs absolute dose. I guess something to do with ensuring everything that passes through the GI tract is undermining the coccidia.

@RoyalChick (or @BY Bob or @ChicoryBlue - if the Vets explain it to you)

So, I don't know biology, other than the basics, but this sounds more like, possibly, an equilibrium/homeostasis thing, no? If the chick gets the full 'dose' but too much total water intake, maybe the equilibrium state in the cells doesn't reach a high enough level to kill the coccidia? Whereas the same dose with less fluid intake creates a strong 'push' force towards homeostasis?? So more of the actual treatment (or higher concertation of it) actually gets into the cells??

Does this sound reasonable, or am I going in the wrong direction trying to understand why concentration and absolute dosage are different in this case.