What is a Zimmer frame?
Sorry. Language issues. It is what a walker is commonly called in the UK.

Can Mareks be found by swab, but even asymptomatic birds will show it's presence, so it's useless except at necropsy?
Yes, Marek's can be detected with a swab. Can do a mouth swab, but a drop of blood is more accurate. Here is one of the independent labs that I have used and I know some others on BYC have used.
https://www.vetdna.com/
 
Oh no, my birds are acting strangely.
There’s grapes all over the ground, but the will only eat from my hand, or when I first give a grape to the rooster. :idunno
The girls won’t eat them off the ground.
Our spoiled birds are finicky like that. A grape on the ground is harder to break up into smaller pieces w/ their beak but if we hold the grape, or banana, or strawberry etc, it's easier for their beak to tear off little bite-sized pieces. Chopping up grapes into tiny pieces & putting on a paper plate will work too. Our yard is littered daily w/ multiple treat plates of chopped spinach, cukes, cooked sweet potatoes, pomegranate seeds, etc.
 
The issue with the use of Baytril, and other antibiotics, being prohibited for use in poultry has to do with the possibility of antibiotic resistance.

From where I am sitting the use of this in ‘pet’ backyard poultry is less of an issue than those huge factory farms using antibiotics.

As for a lifetime ban on eating eggs/meat from treated animals I would find it extremely unlikely after a couple weeks of finding any detectable levels an antibiotic in the birds system.

But - at the end of the day it is every persons own comfort levels and ethics, as to whether to use antibiotics (or other meds ie wormers); each person has their own right to their beliefs.

FYI - such a sweetie pie 😊♥️
I always check the actual persistence in eggs. This is usually well studied (for Baytril I believe it is 10 days for egg yolk).
This study is actually from NIH, but generally I find the European Medicines Agency to be a reliable source for withdrawal data.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21392039/
 
Makes sense.
I think botulism in chickens wears off quite fast.
It is a puzzle.
I'm leaning towards Marecks having gone thru it a couple times w/ a couple unvaccinated birds ~ at 1st symptoms would be mild, occasional loss of balance, or sitting a lot to avoid walking. My vet had poultry as a kid & said he's seen some birds recover & would not suggest putting down a bird. Unfortunately we had to eventually return to the vet to put down the birds as the disease progressed beyond recovery... once w/ a 3-yr-old hen & later w/ a 4-month pullet. After that I refused to ever have unvaccinated birds & only bought from Mareck's vaccinated sources/breeders. Homeopathic people who think ACV is a cure-all preventative for all chicken ailments have a rude awakening.

From a private breeder our sweet non-vaccinated Taffy when she no longer would eat or drink the day we took her to the vet to put her down she just gave up trying.
DSCN7238.JPG


From another private breeder our non-vaccinated 4-month-old arrived w/watery bloody coccidiosis & out of the shipping crate couldn't walk straight & lost balance when her legs crumpled. The vet said it was Mareck's but said to wait but she got progressively worse even after the cocci was dealt with. About 2 weeks later it got way worse w/ difficulty walking, stumbling, stopped eating/drinking & had to put her down. So heartbreaking.
DSCN5677.JPG
 
Sorry. Language issues. It is what a walker is commonly called in the UK.


Yes, Marek's can be detected with a swab. Can do a mouth swab, but a drop of blood is more accurate. Here is one of the independent labs that I have used and I know some others on BYC have used.
https://www.vetdna.com/

Re walker - didn’t want to get a SHRA 😊

Whenever I look in the loft of the garage and see my grammas walker I wonder ‘now what can I use that for in the barn’…. At that point I hear my gramma yelling at me ‘you will not use my good walker in the barn!’ And it is a nice one, has a seat one can sit on when ‘standing in line’, I’ll likely need it one day 🤨

But it would sure make a nice thing to roll food bowls on up the barn aisle!
 
I always check the actual persistence in eggs. This is usually well studied (for Baytril I believe it is 10 days for egg yolk).
This study is actually from NIH, but generally I find the European Medicines Agency to be a reliable source for withdrawal data.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21392039/

10 days, good to know. I haven’t used it but I figured a couple weeks would be the target. I also find the European site handy, I have also used the Australian Ag site handy also.
 
I teres
I always check the actual persistence in eggs. This is usually well studied (for Baytril I believe it is 10 days for egg yolk).
This study is actually from NIH, but generally I find the European Medicines Agency to be a reliable source for withdrawal data.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21392039/

Interesting that the Flumequine was higher in the whites, must be how it is metabolized through the bird. I hadn’t heard of that one before, seems to be used in fish farming here.
 
The issue with the use of Baytril, and other antibiotics, being prohibited for use in poultry has to do with the possibility of antibiotic resistance.

From where I am sitting the use of this in ‘pet’ backyard poultry is less of an issue than those huge factory farms using antibiotics.

As for a lifetime ban on eating eggs/meat from treated animals I would find it extremely unlikely after a couple weeks of finding any detectable levels an antibiotic in the birds system.

But - at the end of the day it is every persons own comfort levels and ethics, as to whether to use antibiotics (or other meds ie wormers); each person has their own right to their beliefs.

FYI - such a sweetie pie 😊♥️
I have no issues w/ antibiotics but vaccines are a concern to me. However, after having Mareck's issues where the birds suffer progressively for days/weeks, I absolutely will not have a bird w/o Mareck's vaccination so the bird doesn't have to suffer symptoms where the bird spends so much lengthy time deteriorating. If birds can recover from Mareck's I never had one :( in spite of my vet's optimism to wait & see.

W/ AI the birds seem to pass very quickly seems almost overnight w/o showing progressive symptoms so I personally will hold any opinion till more info comes forward. Also, at what age are the AI vaccines given? So much to research & whose info to trust. If the AI vaccine can be given to hens past laying age I would vaccinate them for certain but if the vaccine absolutely needs to be given at day-old there is no choice in the matter & we live w/ eating those eggs just like w/ hens that were Mareck's-vaccinated as chicks.

I'm awaiting which USA hatcheries will be the 1st to offer AI vaccine once widely approved. I'm amazed Mareck's isn't automatic in hatcheries but customers have a choices to refuse? Private breeders automatically state their chicks are vaccinated & you don't have a choice. Those are my kind of private breeders.

What a world! Life used to be so much
simpler... Going thru certain flock experiences kinda cements our opinions on how we handle future bird choices.

Another view of Gemma w/ unsteady Mareck's legs she kept spaced apart so she wouldn't fall over. We treated the cocci she arrived with fine but the Mareck's was progressive. She was an adorable Blue Ameraucana from a breeder who didn't believe in vaccines, antibiotics or meds of any kind! We had her only about 2 weeks before having to face the inevitable. Losing both Taffy & Gemma we never got another true Ameraucana again. Such sweet birds.
DSCN5670.JPG
 

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